09-06-2004 09:01									#1
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Just curious, do radar towers also give a 25% attack/defense bonus to Aircraft that 'engage' within the Radar towers radius?

Just wondering, cause if they do they'd be a lot more useful to me.

Thanks in advance!

	09-06-2004 09:12									#2
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No, just ships and land units. Sorry.

	09-06-2004 12:06									#3
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I never use them.......... am I silly?

	09-06-2004 19:06									#4
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I never use them.......... am I silly?

I always try to use them where I think the AI will attack from for defensive purposes mostly. And next to my core cities!

	09-06-2004 21:09									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Antrine No, just ships and land units. Sorry.

Are you sure?

	09-06-2004 21:37									#6
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In Conquests I like to convert slaves into Radar Towers.

	09-06-2004 21:48									#7
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hmm.....



Did someone do a test on it or did one of the Dev's say its so ?

	09-06-2004 22:55									#8
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I never personally tested this, I am passing on a rumor from memory that others had, who seemed very sure about it. How to test this may be the question.

	10-06-2004 01:19									#9
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Radar towers are useful for that foothold city on the AI's continent. That first counter attack is usually the worst.

The bad news is you must protect your Radar Towers or the AI will just walk right onto them and destroy them.

	10-06-2004 01:42									#10
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Never felt much need for radar towers.

	10-06-2004 02:31									#11
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I tested it when PTW came out (and radar towers were introduced). Antrine is correct in that the bonus applied at that time to land and sea units, but not air units. Can't find my thread via search -- it was in the old PTW forum which has disappeared (supposedly merged into Civ 3 General), but even searching the archive of the PTW forum produces no results.

Catt

	10-06-2004 02:40									#12
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i think someone should do a test with conquest 1.22

	10-06-2004 02:53									#13
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I’ve found the rare occasion to use radar towers. They’re useful for static, but hostile borders that I don’t intend to extend outward - particularly as I have workers to burn by that point. It is the outpost that I don’t think I’ve built one of. What bonuses do they supply?

	10-06-2004 03:01									#14
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I've built one outpost, but never a radar tower. They clear the fog of war for a distance (one tile if flat ground, two on hills, three on mountains, IIRC) beyond the normal sight range for that tile. It can be handy in a protracted war or if you suspect a sneak attack, but looks kind of silly once that entire area is yours.

	10-06-2004 03:51									#15
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I never use them.......... am I silly?

I hope not as I never have used them either.

	10-06-2004 05:49									#16
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Well, here's a cheat that I use sometimes. If you're faced with an AI stack o' units, take a slave and build a radar tower right next to them and then take them out.

	10-06-2004 06:19									#17
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How is that a cheat? (In fact, how does that work at all? Radar towers increase your defense)

	10-06-2004 07:53									#18
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From the Civilopedia:
'Radar Towers provide a combat bonus to units within their affected area. To construct a Radar Tower, move a
worker to any land tile within your territory and select the "Build Radar Tower" unit action. Construction of
the Radar Tower consumes the worker. The range of the effected area is 2 tiles. Friendly units within the Radar
Towers range get a +25 attack and defence bonus. This bonus can only be applied once, even if multiple towers
overlap.' (emphasis added)

Now what I think is interesting is how this attribute is also a 'flag' already in use via Vanilla Civ for the Army and an advance artillery unit. For modders it is a field day to add to 'other special' units.

	10-06-2004 08:05									#19
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I always understood the "radar" flag in the editor to only give you a sight bonus and no attack/defense bonus. So instead of 1 space you can see 2 spaces.

Where do you read that it also gives a bonus? Infact, when you go into the help menu of the editor, it doesn't mention the bonus. It only mentions the sight bonus.

	10-06-2004 08:16									#20
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Load up a game and under the general listing alphabetized click 'r' for radar towers. Or load up the Text file, named Civilopedia and down near the bottom is the listing for same. Easier though to Edit/find, type in 'radar tower'.

In earlier discussions it was brought how the Army unit is 'enhanced' by the 'radar flag' in the Unit Screen. This +25 attack, defense bonus is available to any unit so tagged and additionally to any other unit fighting within the 2 tile radius of a tagged radar unit. So a 'leader' unit can be given this 'radar flag' and be posted on the front lines to give the bonus to all units or ships fighting 2 tiles away. I utilize this in various ways, such as loading a leader onto a stack of siege ships and send them off to amphibious landings. It oftens lends an decisive advantage at sea and for to sea siege cities.

	10-06-2004 08:41									#21
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You know MattPilot,

I just had a what may be great gameplay idea via this discussion.
How about supped up naval unit for ancient times anyway that is tagged with the 'radar' unit characteristic and have it named 'the imperial flag ship' or some such thing. To control the number made, it could be via an 'improvement' that spits one out so many turns and restricted by requiring the 'palace' so only one can be built per CIV. And/or could be created via combat by a similiar ship.

What do you think?

	10-06-2004 09:09									#22
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Antrine, I think you're combining two separate items into one. The radar flag does just give a sight bonus, which armies got in C3C, but units like AEGIS and battleship already had. The army combat boni are separate from the radar flag, though the flag is one enhancement given to armies.

	10-06-2004 09:41									#23
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Well my understanding and subjective experience is that they are one and the same. And the logic of how this game is built would I believe support that. Much of what is in the Editor and available for use in modding is haphazard. Just one thing, repackaged. However, I could of course just be wrong with the bonus, but then it sure does seem the way I am indicating in testing. Nice to know though where fantasy and reality meet.

	10-06-2004 10:43									#24
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Well the vote is collecting against me on this one. Maybe I would be better off remaining deluded concerning the bonus, because I was just sure 'in game' that the bonus is there!?!

	10-06-2004 11:45									#25
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The bonus is there for armies, just not given by the radar flag. IOW, it would be impossible to determine whether or not it is by armies, since they have both. I suspect that the "army" flag is where the combat bonus ties in. AEGIS Cruiser, though, has the radar flag, but doesn't get a 25% bonus. I thought the same applied to battleships, but a quick editor check says they don't have the radar flag.

	10-06-2004 22:04									#26
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Battleships deserve Radar -- ability to see 2 land tiles distant (ALL units see 2 water tiles) -- more than Cruisers do. I made it so.

Antrine, my recollection is that the Army combat bonus was initially revealed in a Firaxis chat, tested (I believe) by the corruption nazi.

On Topic: I also wondered about the radar tower's affect on air combat. During that era I will make a concerted effort to relieve the enemy of their advantage at my point of attack, and I occasionally (DOH!) will think of making an effort to use their advantage during an offensive.

	10-06-2004 23:53									#27
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An Aegis (not AEGIS) cruiser has one of the most sophisticated radar systems around. It obviously should get the Radar flag. The battleship and cruiser represent WW2 era vessels, IMHO. If anything, the Cruiser should have the radar flag removed, not the battleship having it added.

	11-06-2004 00:23									#28
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If that's meant for my post, Warpstorm, I'm aware of it, just going by the game convention.

	11-06-2004 02:28									#29
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WS, yes I was referring to Cruiser, not AEGIS Cruiser. I added Radar to BB, removing it from CA even though I had increased its bombardment range to 2.

Yes, it IS all-caps for the AEGIS radar/tracking system (according to my understanding)!

Last edited by Jaybe on 11-06-2004 at 02:37

	11-06-2004 02:56									#30
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I don't think AEGIS stand for anything. Its original name was ASMS, or Advanced Surface Missile System. It was later renamed Aegis after the "mythological shield of Zeus". So if AEGIS doesn't stand for anything, then it would be written without caps - "Aegis". Although the military does like toe use all caps on it