09-06-2004 14:33									#1
	Who said AI doesnt use crawlers? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I remember reading a hundred times that "AI doesnt use crawlers even if it has them"

However, those people who said that must be those who never build EG and never get elected as governor and never infiltrate..
or theyre just blind!

Ive seen AI packing crawlers in base where a SP is started right the next turn & then they somehow disappear and I get message that AI is "nearing a major breakthrough" in its SP production..

Its a pity that I havent got any screenshots of that game, but will try to get some ASAP

There's a screenshot where PK AI crawls minerals:

Attachment: crawler.gif
This has been downloaded 150 time(s).

	09-06-2004 14:40									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Gimme some save files.
Otherwise, you could be taking a screenie of your own base.

EDIT: Or using the Scenario editor
EDIT2: Or spying on someone in a MP game

	09-06-2004 14:42									#3
	Remove this text

I've seen AI build and use crawlers. They are actually very good about throwing crawlers at SP's / Prototypes, so good at it in fact, that you hardly ever see an AI crawler. The thing is they don't use them at all like a human, they won't crawl mines, if they bother building condensors (yeah yeah they do, but half the time on rocky tiles) they wouldn't crawl them either. They hardly ever build crawlers, and hardly ever crawl anything with them. So basically, the AI doesn't benefit from crawlers.

Dumbest thing I've seen the AI do was crawling minerals on a rocky tile... covered in fungus. Points for trying. When the AI does crawl stuff, I don't think they care what they crawl, they'll just has happily crawl an unterraformed tile as an unworked mine.

	09-06-2004 15:01									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Enigma youre stupid!

Im not as untrustworthy as you seem to be!

1.If there are "(PEACEKEEPERS)" that means, it isnt my base
2. - Will get the file if you want to see how my PK AI pactmate uses crawlers (he has ~10 of them)

Here's bigger picture to make you believe that this isnt MP -> have you ever seen a human having such a stupidly developed base??

	09-06-2004 15:08									#5
	Picture Put an end to popups!

NOTICE THAT GOVERNOR IS OFF,BUT STILL HAs TWO PRIORITIES SET -> THAT IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF ITS AI!

Picture:

Attachment: crawler2.gif
This has been downloaded 145 time(s).

	09-06-2004 16:16									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin Im not as untrustworthy as you seem to be! 1.If there are "(PEACEKEEPERS)" that means, it isnt my base

You can place (PEACEKEEPERS) at the end of a base's name.

quote: 2. - Will get the file if you want to see how my PK AI pactmate uses crawlers (he has ~10 of them)

I didn't say you were playing against a very -competant- person in MP...

The 2 priorities with no governor means it is an AI, though.

	09-06-2004 16:33									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

See!

	09-06-2004 16:38									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

AND:

quote: You can place (PEACEKEEPERS) at the end of a base's name.

Count the char number (lenght of string) & think a bit if its possible to write so much chars in "rename base" dialog

Methinks you wont have space for the last bracket at least!

	09-06-2004 18:17									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

at enigma Nova

You are the only guy on here that would even think to accuse someone of lying in an informational post. I think most of the rest of us assume that people tell the truth ( although they can be wrong, mistaken, innaccurate, it is the truth as they believe it to be)

If I were bintravkin, I would not have made any attempt to PROVE I was not lying and found your inneunedo laughable.

	09-06-2004 18:55									#10
	Tired of ads?

I remember reading once something like this:

"A person who doesnt trust anyone is untrustworthy itself. He/she just extends his way of thinking to others and thus values them no better than him/herself.."

Ahh, it was in my course of SocialPsych at secondary school!
But who did say it?

I think it was that famous psychologist.. how was he called..
Sigismund Freud maybe ot something alike!

	09-06-2004 20:08									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

But an AI succesfully crawling 3 minerals?
I had to be a bit skeptical.

	09-06-2004 20:17									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yeah, yeah, but everything is good only if its not unlimited!

Think about you're saying & then say it if you still want to

The "(PK)" thing is obvious -> an expierenced player sees from the first sight that the basename is too long to be artifical!

Only real argument you had was that it was MP, but I think I would never start this thread if my words werent backed with appropriate datafeed..
I'd loose honor & honor is a value here on 'Poly!
Just think about it..

	09-06-2004 20:57									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Funny that it's the PK's with the crawler. Of the perhaps dozen times I've actually seen an AI with more than one crawler, it's been the PK's about half the time.

BTW, see Googlie's post about adding 'Governor may make Crawlers' in the

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=116499

thread. I've been wondering if this would also encourage the AI?

-Smack

Edit [whoops, I see you've been to that thread ]
-S

Last edited by smacksim on 09-06-2004 at 21:11

	10-06-2004 00:24									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think EN was just making a little joke there, binTrav.

I've seen the AI crawler mines, and only mines. I've never seen the AI cash crawlers in for SP's nor spotted one in a build queue, but I've definitely spotted AI crawlers working mines.

Isn't there some kind of code-phrase you're supposed to use if you see an AI crawler so as to improve your karma? "Putt-putt truck!" or "Jinx! No takebacks!" or "Miriam's found a witch!" or something like that?

Err, wait, "Putt putt truck!" is what you shout if you spot a Volkswagen Bus ...

	10-06-2004 00:34									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

+2cents

In the five years or so I have been playing this game, I have seen the AI use a crawler once (Believers of all people too). It crawled a forest tile right outside of the Believers capitol. I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw it.

Unfortunately this was long before I started coming here so I never concidered taking a screenshot of it. Back then I thought I was a lone weirdo still playing an old TBS. Now I know there are many weirdos still playing this old TBS

	10-06-2004 04:41									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

No one ever said the AI doesn't use crawlers, just that they use them mostly for SPs (as someone said above) and rarely crawls nearly useless tiles. It's surely a fluke that the AI happened to crawl a 3 Min tile.

I'm in a game right now where a Drone base has two crawlers getting one mineral each. Yeah... it doesn't happen much, but it does.

	10-06-2004 07:30									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

One of the frustrations a CMN has when dresigning a multiplayer scenario with a beefed-up AI is that when we give them crawlers they tend to use them to explore, of all things!!!

So we can set them to mine a square, or convoy energy, and put them in "lurk mode", but lurking is only until a unit passes by, thus awakening them, then it's off exploring they go.

So now I create a lagoon somewhere at the top or bottom of the map, put a few energy specials in the lagoon, and put trawlers lurking there, convoying energy to a base or bases of the AI. Thus they are never disturbed, so fulfill their lurk quota (max is 255 years, then it rolls over, so 256 becomes 1, and so on)

Even when you play a "switch game" (use the scenario editor to change factions after 100 years, then after 75, and then 50, always choosing the weakest faction) the faction you leave to the AI in 2200, with maybe 50 or 60 crawlers, sees that number reduced to around 20 after 30 turns and often disappear completely after 50. But the AI does in the meantime manage to snare a couple of midgame SP's so at least they are using the crawlers for some benefit

	10-06-2004 09:35									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For anyone doubtful about AI crawler usage, here is a fairly typical example. It's from my latest (SMAC, no X) game, brother Lal, my pactmate, has atleast 2 bases building crawlers, and atleast 3 crawlers on the map, heading to hurry the Living Refinery. Switch sides to Lal (Ctrl-K then shift-F3) to see what he's doing with the crawlers. Should be pretty obvious that I've been playing Morgan all game.

Attachment: morgan of the morganites, 2280.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	11-06-2004 20:10									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In my last game, the Gaians mind controllled a crawler on my border, then used it to convoy minerals from a nearby unmined tile that had a minearals bonus. It stayed there for some time until, and after, I found it, even after all nearby Gaian bases were captured or destroyed.

	12-06-2004 01:13									#20
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Gimme some save files. Otherwise, you could be taking a screenie of your own base. EDIT: Or using the Scenario editor EDIT2: Or spying on someone in a MP game

Now why would someone go to all that trouble?


Of course AI uses crawlers. How else can you explain a cash-dry faction like Yang starting an expensive project and giving the message they have almost finished it 1-2 turns later? I know the computer doesn't outright cheat, though sometimes it seems to tip the scales in its own favor if you're kicking its ass.

	12-06-2004 02:13									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've seen Domai on the edge of Mount Planet bust out SP's in 4-5 turns. It was frightening.