 |
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
I learn it and live it, Vel.
That's why I love starts on a river - both bases established in the first turn, both on a river.
The main use is to get to PlaNets and switch to Planned early, so I can pump Pods/Formers.
If it wasn't for those fudging mindworms
We would see how the plan compared to a start on a Nut Bonus in the Heart of Fire game.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Blake
|
 |
Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:36
|
|
To get to Ecological Engineering requires 6 techs to ind.autos 5.
Biogenetics - Rec.Tanks, HGP
Cent.Ecology - Formers, WP
Social Pysch - Rec.Commons
Ethical Calculus - Childrens Creche, Democratic
Gene Splicing - Research Hospital
Ecological Engineering - Boreholes, Rivers, Condensors
Then for Env.Ecomonics
Ind.Base - The ME
Ind.Econonics - Energy Bank, Free Market
Env.Economics - Treefarms, Raise Land.
Total 9 techs,
The main disadvantage of the restriction lifting tech, is a lack of good SE's, you only get democracy which isn't good early on except for Miriam. For this reason, Free Marketeer factions might consider going to ind.econ earlier, to run FM.
On the plus side, there are some good growth-orientated facilities, you can get some decentely large bases with rectanks+commons, which can build SP's decentely fast. Creches and Research Hospitals are a bit expensive for that early in the game, but may be worth building.
Basically you get to Eco.Eng, then hit the energy crunch, getting to env.eco is quite the trudge. I reccomend no tech trading at all, except ind.base/econ, it'll slow you down too much.
But luckily eco.eng does grant the ability to create rivers and condensors, so you can get +2 energy per tile, and get some specialists going, so you arent really in any risk of stagmenting. Unfortunately libarians only become available with Plan.Nets, and network nodes with info.nets - it may be worthwhile trading for these to get some productive research bases (and probes!), but it'll also make the tech to env.eco a lot longer.
What eco.eng is good for is making size-3 industrial bases, two boreholes, 1 forest+nut special, rec tanks, rec commons. A healthy 16 minerals per such base - if only you had anything to build other than formers (so... build formers)
Really, I feel that once you get eco.eng you have the choice of beelining to env.eco, or diversifying through tech trade and using your relative industrial might to conquer/probe what you need - after all your not building any crawlers so the build queues are free.
As for how long it takes, 80 turns to env.eco on a huge map should be very doable for nearly any faction (starting with 1 tech, 10 turns per tech...). 50-60 turns for the faster researching ones. Faster on smaller maps, or with startpoint luck, or with good trades. I usually tend to play masochist settings (dry... flat.. huge... isolated) so YMMV.
I think the factions most likely to get good times are:
Gaians, running Demo ASAP and 100% labs, leaving ind.econ part until late.
Lal - going FM first, then running Demo.
University - doing the FM first thing.
Morgan - going FM first ofcourse.
But bear in mind, those last two factions are better served going ind.auto fast. The only factions that really truly benefit from fast restriction lifting are Gaians and Hive, Hive in particular often builds so many bases it can be hard finding anything to crawl, increasing terraforming density is good for the hive.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Minute Mirage
|
|
Helsinki
Aug 2003
time: 07:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by #endgame
Blake,
As I have noted before, the Uni need to take a minimum of one tech from off the beeline. Since they start with net nodes, they may as well pick up planetary nets for planned and librarians, switch to planned/dem and miniboom a specialist base. |
This can vary, as the available techs depend on a number of issues, including the slot number (1-7) of your faction in the particular game. Thus, in one game you may get different tech choices than in another in a similar situation. For more information on the matter check out the thread 'Beelining to Industrial Automation'.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
What do you mean, a 'newb' faction?
There are no newb factions in SMAC.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Blake
|
|
Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:36
|
|
Big Bonuses
+
Token Negatives
=
Newb faction
Come on, you don't seriously think the University isn't the best faction?
edit: And by best I mean, best in the widest range of conditions. University is close to spectacular doing momentum, hybrid and Builder - they can get fast impact rovers, they get to ind.auto the fastest, that should allow them to get the VW. The VW allows them to ICS like nobody's business or run FM with near impunity.
The only thing the Univ can't do better than other factions is do the wormrush thing on fungus infusted maps, but that ability is unique to 3 factions.
I think it's also agreed the cult is the worse faction, sure, they can wormrush, but they are a bit of a 1 trick pony, the poor bonuses and hefty penalties mean they are seriously inflexible. Put em on a sparse native life map and they'll flounder. The only place Zak will flounder is sandwiched between two hungry progenitors.
Last edited by Blake on 11-06-2004 at 09:28
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kody
|
|
If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:36
|
|
While most other factions can be just as powerful than the University, doing so requires alot of skill in my opinion. University is the faction that requires the very straight forward tactics to run well. I noticed there's not as much balancing priorties when playing the Univeristy. Hence, I would agree with Blake on University being the faction most suitable for newbies.
To play most other factions you'll need to set priorities and have situational awareness. There's the whole issue of balancing what you need for better growth of your faction and dealing with penalties of your faction.
Balancing isn't as hard when you have so many options open due to advanced tech. With the university you can have what you build lag your most recent techs. This means that university can gain a tech and think about how to use it after he's gained it. While a player from another faction will usually have to plan what he's going to do with that tech beforehand. The balancing issues get more complicated with a tech disadvantage as you have fewer and more limited options open. The tech advantage nets you new units, new facilities, and new SE bonuses giving you greater flexibility in how you run your faction. The tech advantage also makes it very likely for you to gain SPs first, especially if the other players aren't cooperating or haven't met. IA's is basically special project haven, and if factions are considered solo, university will always get there most easily.
The two penalities of the university are increase drones and -2 probe aren't very great at all. Increased drones has very little effect on Transcend games. I would say it only makes golden ages above size 4 a little harder. However, university can boom normally without golden age. -2 probe only affects you much later in the game when you actually start thinking of war. Reduced probe isn't such a great penalty as you've already gathered a fair amount of turn advantage from not having the negatives of other factions.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Velociryx
|
 |
of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:36
|
|
Actually, in my latest games, I'm much more akin to take several smallish sidesteps, in order to get everything I need, as I need it.
So for me, step one is basic infrastructure and worm defense (playing Lal, as I have been lately, that's pretty easy....sothb and social psych). That gives me the basics to cover fast growing bases (and truly, Lal could get by without social psych, especially since I'm rabid about getting the hgp, but....I'm thinking ahead, and in terms of significant b-drones).
So...basic infrastructure first (tanks, commons), and a nod to defense.
Then, I'm all about IA.....will make straight for it, once I've got the basics nailed.
Until then, however, an uber-early rush toward energy restrictions just isn't worthwhile....to get anything out of it, you need decent terraforming, which of course, takes TIME....time enough to grab the other techs I need, so that it all falls into place just as I'm ready for it...
-=Vel=-
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kody
While most other factions can be just as powerful than the University, doing so requires alot of skill in my opinion. |
So skilled Sparta defeats newb University.
What happens when you fight skilled University?
quote:
University is the faction that requires the very straight forward tactics to run well. |
IA -> PTS -> VW -> ICS.
If you can get the HGP in there somewhere, you're gold as far as drone control goes - spam bases like there's no tomorrow!
quote:
I noticed there's not as much balancing priorties when playing the Univeristy. |
Pssht you just haven't played it enough.
It's possible to play so intertwined that 2 misplaced mindworms can force a resignation.
Do you remember, or do you have the attention span of a goldfish?
quote:
To play most other factions you'll need to set priorities and have situational awareness. |
Needed for University also.
You need to know whether to build defence or infrastructure, because usually you don't know if your nearest neighbour is going to momentum your big fat ICS park into oblivion!
quote:
There's the whole issue of balancing what you need for better growth of your faction and dealing with penalties of your faction. |
Better growth:
The WP / Condensors, Planned, Democracy, FM/Golden Age, starting bases near (on?) nut bonuses, etc.
Penalties:
Get the Probes up ASAP.
There's a lot to be said about being tech-rich and probe-poor. Everyone sticks a probe up your ass.
quote:
Balancing isn't as hard when you have so many options open due to advanced tech. |
Or you get choice stress and fail to do anything.
quote:
This means that university can gain a tech and think about how to use it after he's gained it. |
*ahem*
I planned my Beeline quite closely, TYVM.
I even made myself look like an idiot to disguise my intent, and make it seem unplanned.
It's not like you can win with the University blindfolded.
Everything needs strategy, the University is the same.
It may not be as difficult as Morgan or Hive, but it has its ways, and you have to work around them.
quote:
The tech advantage nets you new units, new facilities, and new SE bonuses giving you greater flexibility in how you run your faction. |
A crapload of stuff you don't have the time or resources to build.
The best part of the tech lead is (as you've said) SE freedom, and the ability to do a pop boom ahead of pretty much everyone around you.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Flubber
|
|
With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:36
|
|
Blake
I would agree that the university is stronger than many of the other factions yet I find in PBEMs that skilled university players do get beaten. Other players realize the various strengths and weaknesses and trade to catch up. A tech lead is the most illusory of all leads. What is most important is the empire size and infrastructure.
I don't have a best faction pick really-- I find a number of them to be similar strength but if I HAD to pick one faction, it would likely be the Free Drones. I do agree that the university is one of the easiest factions to play.
Oh and the cult as the worst faction?? That seems to be conventional wisdom. I definitely wouldn't enjoy them on a huge map with sparse fungus. They do seem designed for small or tiny maps with average or more fungus.
As for skilled versus unskilled , if the skill disparity is large enough, the better player will win regardless of faction choice.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Flubber
|
|
With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:36
|
|
Oh and that -2 university probe rating doesn't seem like a big deal until you see your bases being mind controlled away and find that the cost to mind control them back is too high
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kody
|
|
If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:36
|
|
Enigma,
As for the mindworms ruining your plans, you're still at the top of the power charts and you extracted a free peace treaty from the person you keep calling your enemy.
Anyway when I lose to the university, I can say "I'm glad I don't always play a newbie faction". 
Last edited by Kody on 12-06-2004 at 01:45
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-06-2004 23:08
|