10-06-2004 08:13									#1
	The IA Beeline Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

[QUOTE=Velociryx]
I cal already get to game-breaking crawlers in the early 20's
[/QUOTE]

How can anyone get to crawlers that fast?

Please help.

TIA.

	10-06-2004 08:47									#2
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The fastest IA beeline is with Zak (for obvious reason)

Grab Cent. Ecology as your free tech (terraform for energy outputs early on), don't pod pop early on (cos freebie techs will slow you down if they're off-beeline), and race up the early tree for the tech you want (in this case, IA)



-=Vel=-

EDIT: On average, you'll get your first tech advance in ~4 years, and your next several techs will come at that same speed or better with no pod popping.

Of course, you can shave still more time off IF you get lucky popping pods and grab 1-2 techs that are ON beeline, but don't hold your breath....50/50 at best.

	10-06-2004 08:57									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Makes sense, but still:

O_O

Thanks.

	10-06-2004 09:13									#4
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Well, keep in mind too that that's at the extreme end of the possibilities....yes, possible, doable, no doubt...but don't expect THAT kind of result in every game. Still, if you start near/on a river (and even better, a river with an energy bonus), absolutely....

factor in luck with pods, and you could prolly get there even faster.


-=Vel=-

	10-06-2004 09:33									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Standard planet, average everything, and a fairly mundane start (tho I did land on a river)

-=Vel=-

Attachment: zak, 2113, ia.jpg
This has been downloaded 158 time(s).

	10-06-2004 09:35									#6
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Timeline:
2101 Unibase established (begin former)

2102 Climactic research est (begin former) - rush former at uni base (taking advantage of the min res last turn)

2104 - Industrial base researched

2106 - Climactic's former done, Uni Base former has completed the first forest (on the river)

2107 Ind. Ec. Researched

2108 both formers double team to complete the second forest (also on the river)

2109 Planet Nets researched

2112 Unibase makes a second former

2113 Ind. Auto Researched



-=Vel=-

	10-06-2004 11:13									#8
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I don't think it can be said any other way.

	10-06-2004 12:37									#9
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In 3x2 games it can be done even faster:
Take Morgan & angels

No matter what do Angels research, but->

Research IE with morgan, when you see It will be ready next turn, bring up the diplomacy & gift PlaNets from Angels to Morgan, press accept

When its morgan turn you have diplo-screen popping up-> just press "end transmission", see new tech, choose ANY tech, bring up the screen, accept deal, press Shift-R & change to IA!

My personal best with that is IA in 2109 (with techspeed 4-5/turn)

	10-06-2004 13:03									#10
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I was just thinking that you can do the same (2113 yr thing) with Morgan->

If youre on river + work river square, your energy output is 5 per base initially, & 7 after 4 turns (IE->FM)

So labs output is 3-4 with average of >3.5

Uni on river + 1 workable riv square has (4/2)*1.5 = 3(labs)
After forest (4turns at best)->5 labs
after FM-> 5 labs

A bit less still..

	10-06-2004 13:05									#11
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Bu I dont think that IA could be get any faster than 2108 even with that 3x2 thing
And 2108 only if youre damn lucky to land near enbonus!

maybe 2107 with 2 enbonuses, but its ~1:1000

	10-06-2004 14:31									#12
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You could pop PlanNets from a pod or something... Or IndBase is more likely.

-Jam

	10-06-2004 14:37									#13
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IB I do have already, but Ive never seen popped L2 tech!

Only maybe pop 2 AAs they give you-> PlaNets, IE, your freebie->IB & you have only to res IA (3-5turns)!

	10-06-2004 14:39									#14
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The Angels can get Ind.Auto fast by themselves.. even faster if they use the starting probe to steal ind.Econ from Morgan, but thats a stretch.

	10-06-2004 15:09									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ind Auto too early is worthless though. You want to pump the first pods before you start on crawlers, right? Or do you want to plonk tow bases, go crawler crazy, get the HGP and PTS and THEN build all your bases - if there's any land left...

-Jam

	10-06-2004 15:27									#16
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Well, I wouldn't say it's *worthless* cos at least this way, you've got it when you want it, however, yes...that was my point with the initial quote that started this thread....I can GET it uber-early, but why? I don't need it at least until I build my first two new colony groups, and clearly, I can get it before I do that, so additional improvement in that arena seems....needless.

-=Vel=-

	10-06-2004 15:35									#17
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The only time IndAuto comes too early is when you don't have the 40ec's to switch to wealth IMHO. It'll then help you get those colony pods out cheaper than sans IndAuto.

	10-06-2004 15:49									#18
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Why so?
IA gives some other goodies too-> increased economy&industry!

Theyre almost as good as crawlers especially if all you want is turn advantage!
Do you know any early SE that gives you so much & takes so little?

Morale is not a big deal if you got monolith in vicinity to improve every military unit!

Comparisons:

FM (the 2nd best early SE for all xcept Hive)
+2 comm -> GOOD
-3planet-> cant efficently move in fungus, MWs rush towards you, cant easily kill them
-5police->every citizen after 1st is drone (Wealth doesnt give you that)

Planned (Good only if you cant take FM or are ready for Popboom)
+2Gro ->where the **** I will put those new citizens?? I dont need more drones!
+1Ind -> good
-2eff -> not a big deal initially as your bases are tightly packed & you have not much of them, but if you expand a bit you get first B-drones..

Demo: Completely useless before Crawlers who help fight low support
+2Gro ->where the **** I will put those new citizens?? I dont need more drones!
+2Eff -> dont really need it early.. (only if want a superfast b-line and thus allocate more to research)
-2Supp -> AArgh! The worst penalty in-game! (unless you have positive support initially)

Police state: (You wont have it very early as its not on any early b-line, except the one for PlaEco, but thats already mid-game as PlaEco changes gameplay A LOT, xce[t youre Yang or friendly to him)
+2Pol -> Good if not having FM
+2Sup-> best of this SE! One of the best SE bonuses
-2eff -> not a big deal initially as your bases are tightly packed & you have not much of them, but if you expand a bit you get first B-drones..

Green & Fundy are only chosen under heavy circumstances as they offer too less & take too much (war or abundant angry MWs)

SO -> IA is NOT worthless if crawlers are not used as Wealth will make you beginning producing them sooner anyway!
+commerce which it gives (just meet a friendly neighbour early!)

	10-06-2004 16:43									#19
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quote: The only time IndAuto comes too early is when you don't have the 40ec's to switch to wealth IMHO. It'll then help you get those colony pods out cheaper than sans IndAuto.

Unless the 40ecs are better used for getting pods and formers out 3-4 turns faster with rush-to-completion tactics, changing to Wealth after you have 4 or 5 bases up?

-Jam

	10-06-2004 17:03									#20
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Yes, thats true, but then wealth will help you to get more ec's faster, so there may be a slight lull for some pods & formers etc. but then the future ones will be there faster with the +1 industry (Also lower rushing cost).

	10-06-2004 17:14									#21
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If you're playing all seven factions in a game, you can get IA in 2101, and switch all your factions to Wealth by 2102.

	10-06-2004 17:30									#22
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quote: If you're playing all seven factions in a game, you can get IA in 2101, and switch all your factions to Wealth by 2102.

How?

	10-06-2004 18:08									#23
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1 Morgan, 1 Angels, 1 Uni, 1 AA.

	10-06-2004 18:23									#24
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what is the percentage of possibilty that you've got pods right next to uni base, then the percentage of possibilty that you pop AA & then the percentage of possibilty that you get IA when attach it to your Node..

1st: ~10%
2nd: ~5%
3rd: ~10%

(all average numbers)

0.1*0.05*0.1 = 0.0005 or 0.05% or 1:2000

	10-06-2004 20:18									#25
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Well, what I would use is
2 Morganites
5 University

In this order:
Morgan
Univ
Univ
Morgan
Univ
Univ
Univ

1st Morgan gifts IB to all Univ
1st Univ picks IndEco and sends to all (switching to FM)
2nd Univ picks PlaNets and sends to all (switching to FM)
2nd Morgan switches to FM
3rd Univ picks IA and sends to all (switching to FM or wealth)
4th Univ picks Ecology and sends to all (switching to FM or wealth)
5th Univ picks something useful, and may or may not send to all (switching to FM or wealth)
1st Morgan switches to FM or wealth
1st Univ switches to wealth if enough ECs
2nd Univ switches to wealth if enough ECs
2nd Morgan switches to wealth if enough ECs
3rd Univ completes switch to FM/wealth if enough ECs
4th Univ completes switch to FM/wealth if enough ECs
5th Univ completes switch to FM/wealth if enough ECs

At the end of every turn, remember to gift all your ECs to the next player. Of course, also establish pacts all around on turn 1. This requires trading before in-game contact, of course.

	10-06-2004 20:34									#26
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Nice!
Wonder if that game will happen in MP anywhen..

	10-06-2004 20:38									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Well, what I would use is 2 Morganites 5 University In this order: Morgan Univ Univ Morgan Univ Univ Univ 1st Morgan gifts IB to all Univ 1st Univ picks IndEco and sends to all (switching to FM) 2nd Univ picks PlaNets and sends to all (switching to FM) 2nd Morgan switches to FM 3rd Univ picks IA and sends to all (switching to FM or wealth) 4th Univ picks Ecology and sends to all (switching to FM or wealth) 5th Univ picks something useful, and may or may not send to all (switching to FM or wealth) 1st Morgan switches to FM or wealth 1st Univ switches to wealth if enough ECs 2nd Univ switches to wealth if enough ECs 2nd Morgan switches to wealth if enough ECs 3rd Univ completes switch to FM/wealth if enough ECs 4th Univ completes switch to FM/wealth if enough ECs 5th Univ completes switch to FM/wealth if enough ECs At the end of every turn, remember to gift all your ECs to the next player. Of course, also establish pacts all around on turn 1. This requires trading before in-game contact, of course.

If you want to start the game with IA, why not simply use the scenario editor to give everyone the tech?

Edit for my terrible typos

	10-06-2004 21:32									#28
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Because you could do this without the scenario editor? You could play a "legitimate" game this way, controlling all of the players.

	10-06-2004 22:00									#29
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And the point of this exercise would be... what?

	10-06-2004 22:51									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by CEO Aaron And the point of this exercise would be... what?

My thought as well.

Unless someone wants to try to set some new 7 faction transcend record