11-06-2004 07:11									#1
	The Tale of the Years - 1838 to 1853 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The Tale of the Years – 1838 to 1853

1838 – Discover Medicine! and start Polytheism. Change Apolytonia to non-Xin. Rehome Caravel to Caralis and adjust Workers to balance shields and food (population growth). Caravel goes to retreive exploring Salt Caravan. Utica Settler moved to canal site. Caravel with Explorer toward Utica.

1840 - Malaca builds Settler, starts Settler. Explorer toward just east of Utica to see if any cities encroaching there. Utica Settler establishes "Panama", starts Temple. Other Settlers move south. Caralis Caravel does a little exploring while waiting for Salt Caravan to explore way to coast for pickup. Change Apolytonia to Xin (gives tech in 8 turns that way).

1842 - Zulus build Hoover's. Change Apolytonia to non-Xin. Settler establishes city of "Two Whales", starts Temple.

1844 - Salt Caravan arrives at coast and Caravel moves to pick it up. (hitch-hiking thumb) Explorer explores west. Change Apolytonia to Xin.

1846 - Change Apolytonia to non-Xin. Explorer explores. Salt sails. Settler moves south.

1848 - French civ destroyed by Zulu! Malaca Settler establishes "Cartenna", starts Temple, uses one of Two Whale's Whales (Two Whales citizens oblingly shift worker to western Whale) Change Apolytonia to Xin. Change Apolytonia Settler to Caravan and rush it for 53G (I want trade, gold, and beakers more than 1 Settler right now).

1850 - Celts start Bach (wish we had a Bach-scratcher). Apolytonia builds Gold Caravan, sends it off toward Egypt, starts Settler, changes to non-Xin. Explorer explores. We have 900,000 citizens.

1851 - Explorer tips hut for 100 G Change Apolytonia to Xin. Salt and Gold Caravans sailing toward Egypt (on Caravels of course) Buy Panama a Temple for 56G.

1852 - Panama builds Temple starts Settler. Apolytonia changes to non-Xin. Salt and Gold proceed in high waves and storms toward Egypt. Explorer explores.

1853 - Gold Caravan reaches Giza, 98G Beaker bonus misses finishing Polytheism by a whisker. Change Apolytonia to Xin.

	11-06-2004 07:12									#2
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	11-06-2004 07:13									#3
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	11-06-2004 07:14									#4
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	11-06-2004 07:16									#7
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	11-06-2004 07:17									#8
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	11-06-2004 07:18									#9
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	11-06-2004 07:19									#10
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	11-06-2004 07:21									#11
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	11-06-2004 08:23									#12
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Looks like progress, a quick glace at the game brings up the following thoughts:

- I think we should stop Xinning now
- I think we should change our tax rate to 20% Lux, 0% Tax and 80% Science (66 beakers per turn, net loss of 15 gold)
- I think we should spend gold on city improvements (two cities building temples should be rushed and returned to building settlers)
- I still think we should make contact with AI, even if only with the "receptive" and "neutral" civs that Cavebear points out (but not with 544 Gold in the bank!!)
- I think we will lose this game by the Zulus landing on Alpha Centuri
- I think I better shut up before I am thrown out of office

* Sparrowhawk Minister of the War on Trade

	11-06-2004 08:51									#13
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The "receptive" civ is enticing...

	12-06-2004 12:12									#14
	Re: The Tale of the Years - 1838 to 1853 Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by cavebear The Tale of the Years – 1838 to 1853 1853 - Gold Caravan reaches Giza, 98G Beaker bonus misses finishing Polytheism by a whisker.

Two points/questions for our Consul...

Do you remember if you maximized trade before delivering the Caravan to Giza (because i have been trying to duplicate the 98G and have been unable to with our base trade of Apolytonia at 40 base trade/60 total trade).

Also, it seems that we didn't "miss finishing Polytheism by a whisker" but rather that the caravan overproduced it (which is good ) and ensured that we will get it next turn. The science bar is as full as it gets right now.

* Sparrowhawk Minister of Trade

	12-06-2004 22:32									#15
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I moved all Apolytonian Workers to Ocean to maximize trade arrows. Should I have changed something else?

On further thought, I suppose we *did* complete the research with bonus beakers, but it won't show until the start of the next turn. Just a little confusion caused by ending the session on a trade delivery that completes a tech.

	12-06-2004 22:47									#16
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Nope, you shouldn't have changed anything else that I know of I just was having some trouble with the calculations.

It seems to me that with Apolytonia maxed for trade (60 Trade - 20 for 3 trade routes), that Giza would have to only have trade of 6 or 7 for us to only get 98 Gold and while AI usually go for Food and then Shields, I am still suprized that a size ?7? coastal city only has 6-7 base trade...and further that neither 6 or 7 worked very well, almost as if they had 6.5 Trade or something

Anyhow it is a moot point, I was just trying to calculate the delivery for the Salt Caravan to Giza/Kildeer (which should be around the same as the Gold caravan...98 Gold or so, as neither good is/was demanded).

Another point that I should acknowledge, is that we discussed a while back delivering Caravans from our Colonies to the known Egyptian cities (Giza and Kildeer) and the thought was they wouldn't be worth it, I have tried a couple samples and even for demanded goods (Wine in my example), I think the delivery would be around 40-50 Gold (which is not worth it in my opinion).

One last thing is that it looks like there is a city West and slightly South of Kildeer (note the irrigation) and I would like to know if it is another Egyptian city, our first Sioux city and what size it is for potential Caravan deliveries...perhaps a nearby boat could swing by and investigate?

	13-06-2004 01:39									#17
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The Salt Caravan on the Caravel is with 1 turn reach of that irrigation site. We could always go there and see if there is a city at the spot now. It would be unlikley to be as large now as the known Egyptian cities. How about we swing by there with the empty Caravel and check?

	13-06-2004 01:52									#18
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I like delivering first exploring later.

	13-06-2004 03:43									#19
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I too like the idea of deliver first, then explore. This has the advantage of probably freeing a slot for another commodity before the current build finishes, and fits in with my preference for sending the Apoly' homed boat to Utica, etc, for rehoming.

Monk

	13-06-2004 23:33									#20
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Sounds like a plan, Humored Honored Ministers...

	14-06-2004 12:55									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I too like the idea of deliver first, then explore. This has the advantage of probably freeing a slot for another commodity before the current build finishes, and fits in with my preference for sending the Apoly' homed boat to Utica, etc, for rehoming. Monk

I go along with this.

As far as the trade value of the AI civ is concerned, remember that if our city is significantly bigger than the AI city (which it is because we shift all our workers to get the highest possible trade value before delivering the goods), even relatively large differences in AI population give rise to relatively small diferences in van delivery value.

RJM at Sleeper's (who takes a deep breath after writing rather a lot of words before reaching a full stop - period for you colonial types.)

	17-06-2004 04:46									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Nope, you shouldn't have changed anything else that I know of I just was having some trouble with the calculations.

* MrWhereItsAt seizes on these words

There's actually an equation for this? Where?

And that area of rivers looks pretty nice

	17-06-2004 05:13									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt * MrWhereItsAt seizes on these words There's actually an equation for this? Where?

* Sparrowhawk debates whether to give MWIA the equation (and make himself look smart ...even though the equation was determined by Sampson and others), the thread (and make MWIA do some reading that is way over this Minister of Trade's head ), or to give MWIA the spreadsheet (created by Chofritz which is a very useful "tool" which our current Consul might not think too highly of, but which I find most excellent!).

I though I would be generous and provide the thread with the equation and the spreadsheet (the formula is the first post of THIS THREAD ). The Excel Spreadsheet is in a link in the 15th post by Chofritz (oops, I originally put 8th post, but he revised the spreadsheet twice, the third version is the correct one ).

to MWIA for displaying that Sparrowhawk reads better then he researches, if you waited for me to come up with these calculations you would be waiting a long while

Edited to correct error (I referred to the wrong post containing Chofritz's spreadsheet, he has 3 versions, the 3rd corrects the errors of the first 2 )

	17-06-2004 07:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk which is a very useful "tool" which our current Consul might not think too highly of, but which I find most excellent!).

I seem to be getting a reputation for not liking records-keeping. Nothing could be further from the truth. I keep a chart of Oedo years. I keep a list of good spaceships.

The only thing that bothers me is software that seems to actively interact with the game from outside that alters or reveals information otherwise not available from any action possibly from within the game without that software (hut-finder seems to be a good example).

There are some tactics I don't normally engage in but have no real objection to (like black-clicking, checking "nearest city" for exploring units, etc). If I remembered them routinely, I would do those things.

I hope this answers concerns...

	17-06-2004 07:21									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt And that area of rivers looks pretty nice

I want to build on that river system! Cities there could easily surpass our existing colony cities quickly at no cost, and we need shields to produce Crusaders when we get that tech.

	17-06-2004 07:28									#26
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Thank you Learned Sage of Apolyton!

I occasionally read through some old threads in Civ2-Strat, but rarely do I encounter much useful bits like this, and I rarely have the time to spend on looking in depth. What sort of months/years should I be searching there for strat posts?

And I think I understand, cavebear. Would you be content though if we worked from the equations that hutfinder (assuming it does so) and the caravan route value spreadsheet use rather than using a program that uses them?

	17-06-2004 07:50									#27
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To be honest, I have no idea what the outside software programs do, so I can't tell you if manually duplicating them would be wrong. My guess is that if you can do it yourself it does not intrude into the game itself and would be OK.

I don't think I mentioned any strategy posts.

I don't have a problem with anything you can learn within the game, just with things you learn by outside software that interacts with it. Is that so difficult to understand? I'm not sure how else to describe it.

	17-06-2004 08:46									#28
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LOL, I don't care for the Hutfinder either (I don't care for the fact that specials and Huts are in a discernable pattern for that matter, that that's a whole other discussion).

Most of the other programs I like though, as I have stated before, I use the Science research one regularly to determine the next available techs and plan my research and tech trades accordingly (but then again most of the games I am involved in are similar to the Demo games with plenty of time between turns, not sure I would do so in an ongoing game and definetely not in a Multiplayer game ).

Interesting to see different views on the programs though, thanks for clarifying.

	17-06-2004 09:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear The only thing that bothers me is software that seems to actively interact with the game from outside that alters or reveals information otherwise not available from any action possibly from within the game without that software (hut-finder seems to be a good example).

FYI:

I see you have not studied the info I provided on Hut Finder. It is entirely possible from just playing the game to dope out its results. It just makes it easier, like using a slide rule...you remember slip sticks I presume??

Monk