12-06-2004 01:05									#1
	GoW/ND chat log - ND turns to the dark side! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Start of #gow_cofa buffer: Fri Jun 11 12:25:56 2004 [11:19] * Now talking in #gow_cofa [11:19] * services.apolyton.net changes topic to 'The Glory of Diplomacy: Who needs the UN when you have #GoW_CoFA?' [11:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr [11:21] * Darekill has joined #gow_cofa [11:21] [Darekill] Hi [11:21] [MasterZen] hello [11:22] [MasterZen] how's it going? [11:22] [Darekill] I#m sorry but I 've got only a few minutes. [11:22] [Darekill] So let us do this quick. [11:22] [MasterZen] no problem [11:23] [Darekill] ND is in great favor of the idea about the alliance. I wrote this in an email. [11:23] [MasterZen] yes, so are we, no-one has said no (so far) [11:23] [Darekill] They are also a bit greedy concerning our citys that should be given to you.. [11:24] [MasterZen] I've been thinking of that and I have an idea [11:24] [Darekill] and there are concerns about wether this alliance should be allowed by trip or not. [11:24] [MasterZen] who cares what Trip thinks :P [11:24] [MasterZen] it's not illegal [11:24] [Darekill] right [11:24] [Darekill] That is exactly what I told them. [11:24] [MasterZen] I mean, Lego and Vox are probably working the same way [11:25] [Darekill] no one can tell us we can't cooperate. [11:25] [MasterZen] hell, WE'VE been working that way for quite some time now [11:25] [MasterZen] during most of Zayxus's term we've been doing joint research [11:26] [Darekill] O.K. let me hear your idea. [11:27] [MasterZen] well, first of all we had made a treaty on those cities, and ND agreed to it, so technically it would constitue a breach. However, I would be quite willing to let ND keep Stonedina if ND agrees to ACTIVELY support GoW/GS in a war against Lego [11:27] [Darekill] Hehe.. [11:27] [MasterZen] [11:28] [Darekill] Hard to get that through but I'll do my best [11:28] [MasterZen] c'mon, I know ND likes BLOOD [11:29] [Darekill] Yes ND likes blood but Hmm... It'll be hard to turn our policy here. We honour treatys as you know. [11:29] [Darekill] And we have a word that we gave Lego that we would not atack them. so we wont [11:29] [Darekill] but... [11:30] [MasterZen] well so do we, but if it comes between breaking a treaty with a rival team in order for them not to win, I'd do it [11:30] [MasterZen] well... we can look at it this way [11:30] [MasterZen] if Lego attacks GoW, then we could invoke a mutual protection pact... [11:30] [Darekill] if we are forced somehow to [11:30] [Darekill] atack them let'S say in a mpp [11:31] [Darekill] then things could likely escalate [11:31] [MasterZen] there are many ways to bend the rules ] [11:31] [Darekill] I know. [11:31] [MasterZen] all you have to be is, creative [11:31] [MasterZen] (and evil) [11:32] [Darekill] This has to be absolutely confidential. I must avoid talking open to this in our forum, they'd be quite right mad at me. [11:32] [Darekill] I can be evil. [11:32] [MasterZen] heh [11:32] [Darekill] I have that potential but I choose sometimes to play the saint quite effectiv. [11:33] [MasterZen] yep, works to be the wolf in sheep's clothing [11:34] [Darekill] I'd need time to prepare more and more incidents that prove my people that lego is evil and they deserve to be punished [11:34] [MasterZen] They're going to win if we don't do anything, that should prove your point well enough :P [11:35] [Darekill] ND isn'T that much in the winning at all cost moode the most of my people are in the not loosing mode. [11:35] [MasterZen] hmm [11:36] [MasterZen] well, try and convince them that if we work together we can not only not-lose but perhaps even win [11:36] [Darekill] that is why i won the election. [11:37] [Darekill] Zayxus only showed a way how we could help Lego to win and we survive [11:37] [Darekill] I told them we have to stop feeding them and start tending our own good [11:38] [MasterZen] well, that explains much [11:38] [Darekill] we turned from a friendly position toward lego to a non hostile one right now. [11:39] [Darekill] part of that doctrin is: Let GS and GoW atack Lego and watch it from aside [11:39] [MasterZen] :P [11:39] [Darekill] but since we are closer partners to be this would be void anyway. [11:39] [MasterZen] I'll send you popcorn [11:40] [Darekill] to put it even clearer. If you would have invaded Lego not sooo succesful but still were about to win we could have been mad enough to assist Lego. [11:40] [Darekill] For a price.. [11:41] [Darekill] You see I for an exapmple are evil. [11:41] [MasterZen] well, we would not have invaded Lego given ND's attitude towards them, it would leave us wide open [11:41] [Darekill] It would not have worked out though I guess. [11:41] [MasterZen] we're crazy but not THAT crazy [11:42] [Darekill] You see. Thats what I figured out too. [11:42] [Darekill] Just about that time the thought of an alliance grew. [11:42] [Darekill] Knewing that it'll lead us deeper into the jungle of having to fight Lego, [11:43] [Darekill] But I think I have a solution for our problem. [11:43] [MasterZen] how quick do you think ND could assemble a strike force? [11:43] [Darekill] See I gave Vondrak my word not to atack Lego. [11:44] [MasterZen] hahahahahahaha [11:44] [MasterZen] [11:44] [Darekill] My legislation only lasts 30 turns.... [11:44] [Darekill] then who can say who'S in charge then... [11:44] [Darekill] You got me right ? [11:45] [Darekill] We still need some time for infrastucture and a sold built up. [11:45] [MasterZen] that's why I laughed [11:45] [Darekill] I'd say an attack before tanks is not so appropriate? [11:46] [MasterZen] well, the idea here is to invade Lego after WE get tanks but before THEY do [11:46] [Darekill] thought so. [11:46] [MasterZen] in about 3-4 turns GoW will begin a furious re-armament phase [11:46] [Darekill] Well Vondrack isn't exactly a fool like Togas? Is he? [11:46] [MasterZen] I would like to re-emphazise the FURIOUS part [11:47] [MasterZen] nope, well Togas isn't a fool either [11:47] [MasterZen] he just got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time [11:47] [Darekill] Well not a complete onbe. But I think Vondrak is more clever [11:47] [MasterZen] Vondrack is less likely to let personal feelings guide his actions, that's the main difference [11:48] [Darekill] He knows whats gona come. trying to talk to me in angels tounges. [11:48] [Darekill] I just try to avoid meeting him. [11:49] [MasterZen] Zargon wanted to talk to me the other day [11:49] [Darekill] successful but he knows what that means. [11:49] [MasterZen] I was studying for my french exam thoguh, so I told him later [11:50] [MasterZen] but I'll just say if they want to trade, sorry, we already have everything we want :P [11:50] [Darekill] How longe till you'd start the invasion? [11:51] [MasterZen] depends on how quick GS and us muster up a strong enough force [11:52] [Darekill] We have no navy and are in a process to build factorys Hospitals and Stock exchanges. [11:52] [Darekill] It'll last another 20-30 turns at least then we could start to build up a strikeforce. [11:52] [MasterZen] i'd say skip the stock exchanges, just build the factories and hospitals [11:53] [Darekill] It needs money to keep up an army. [11:53] [Darekill] stochexchanges produce it. [11:54] [MasterZen] I think we're only going to build a few stock exchanges, pure army then [11:54] [Darekill] Ah and just because I was very open. [11:54] [Darekill] One more question. [11:55] [MasterZen] yes? [11:55] [Darekill] You'ld have had a testrun on your Army, if the allianc would not happen, right? [11:56] [Darekill] I# mean in your shoes I'd have had it... [11:56] [MasterZen] ?? [11:56] [MasterZen] I don't understand.... [11:56] [Darekill] though it would be risky [11:56] [Darekill] You do. [11:56] [MasterZen] no I don't, what do you mean by "test run"? [11:57] [Darekill] well you would have build up the army in anyway. [11:57] [MasterZen] within the affordable parameters, yes [11:57] [Darekill] Just the target woud have to be first a closer one. one that was on the same continent. [11:57] [MasterZen] we are, after all, the glory of WAR [11:58] [MasterZen] it all depends on what our perceived way of victory would be [11:58] [MasterZen] if we perceived that the only way to win were a war with ND, then yes, but I don't see how that would work. Lego would probably clobber us :P [11:59] [Darekill] O.k. [11:59] [MasterZen] more likely we would've rearmed just because other civs would likely do the same [11:59] [Darekill] That was what I assumed. [11:59] [Darekill] No hard feelings. [11:59] [MasterZen] but we'll, we'd have done that a LONG time ago too :P [12:00] [Darekill] We can plan the invasion and the "Glory if ND" [12:00] [MasterZen] we've both have had chances to take each other out. But we haven't. That's a good sign of trust, IMO [12:00] [Darekill] Oh that'S for sure. guess what we had in mind while signing Panzers plan and giving you our citys... [12:01] [MasterZen] hehe, that comes as no surprise to me :P [12:01] [Darekill] We just did not dare it. [12:01] [Darekill] If we fight neither will win. [12:01] [MasterZen] the thing is, a 1-civ bob would be the target of everyone else. Like lego is now [12:02] [Darekill] either Lego or Gs would just get the popcorn until they feel it is time to pick up the pices [12:02] [MasterZen] In Civ, sometimes the best strategy is not to appear to be the one to win, and then doing it from "under the radar" [12:02] [Darekill] Yep. [12:03] [MasterZen] hmmm I have a real evil idea [12:03] [Darekill] speack you know I like evil ideas. [12:03] [Darekill] speak.. [12:04] [MasterZen] if GoW and GS attack Lego, maybe ND can then attack GS various turns later after we do some damage to Lego [12:04] [Darekill] no ck.. [12:04] [MasterZen] that would be fun... [12:04] [MasterZen] with the bulk of their army in Legoland [12:04] [Darekill] :g: [12:04] [Darekill] oh yeah.. [12:04] [MasterZen] of course, Lego would have to be crippled a bit (or a lot) [12:04] [Darekill] And it would be much better to sell... [12:05] [Darekill] But we'd still need a very big army. [12:05] [Darekill] And ships at the wrong coast. [12:06] [Darekill] but itS' tempting... [12:06] [MasterZen] very [12:06] [Darekill] How would GS react. [12:06] [MasterZen] who cares! they'd be dead! [12:06] [Darekill] They'D call for you to help them. [12:07] [MasterZen] and technically we could'nt because our army would be in Legoland too :P [12:07] [Darekill] How long would they have time to see what'S going to come. [12:07] [Darekill] Can we cross the sea in two turns? [12:08] [MasterZen] ND can [12:08] [Darekill] That would leve them only one turn to react. [12:08] [Darekill] We'D need Marines. [12:08] [MasterZen] and they can't bring back the army in 2 turns [12:09] [Darekill] To conquer a coast town and put in the Rest of the picnic team... [12:09] [MasterZen] yep [12:09] [Darekill] You'D just kill them on their way home. [12:10] [Darekill] But at this time Lego must be beaten up very heavy. [12:10] [MasterZen] yes, hopefully [12:11] [Darekill] O.K. before anything of this can happen we must have the alliance signed. [12:11] [MasterZen] sure [12:11] [Darekill] we must have the confidence that on borc is almost no military needed. Just some on the coast. [12:11] [MasterZen] I can begin writing a draft and can send it to you on the weekend, then you guys can revise it add/remove stuff and then we sign it and send it to Trip [12:12] [Darekill] Fine! [12:12] [Darekill] ThatS' the way we do it. [12:12] [MasterZen] sehr gut! [12:13] [Darekill] We can make it in two Languages. Bongo can translate too and Trip knows enough to aprove that the german version is the same as the englicsh one. [12:13] [MasterZen] ok [12:14] [Darekill] You send me the draft. I put it in our forum and translate it there. [12:14] [MasterZen] bongo is active in your team? [12:14] [Darekill] then we'D add something or in the ideal case nothing [12:14] [Darekill] And I#ll send you our Version. in both versions the translated one and the english one. [12:15] [MasterZen] sounds perfect [12:15] [Darekill] It is... [12:16] [MasterZen] I think my team is going to like it [12:16] [MasterZen] anything that implies war and savagery is sure to make them drool with glee [12:17] [Darekill] They are not much different to my people. [12:17] [Darekill] and not so different from me [12:18] [Darekill] Just some need to be reminded that one game is one thing and another one is another one [12:18] [MasterZen] hehhe [12:18] [MasterZen] are you active in that "other" one? [12:18] [Darekill] there were voices that warned me not to ally with the friends of neta. [12:18] [MasterZen] hahaha [12:18] [Darekill] I sometimes add my advice in some military decisions. [12:19] [MasterZen] well, you guys fought really well [12:19] [Darekill] Neta was... [12:19] [Darekill] Ummm.. [12:19] [Darekill] Unwise? [12:19] [MasterZen] not entirely competent, yes, we noticed [12:19] [Darekill] They made our job more easy than the would have needed to. [12:20] [Darekill] But we should avoid that terrain since the other game is realy another one... [12:20] [MasterZen] well yes, not that I've ever considered them similar [12:20] [MasterZen] my friends in the ISDG are my enemies in the PTWDG and vice versa... hehehe [12:21] [Darekill] That's the way it is. [12:21] [MasterZen] more fun that way [12:22] [Darekill] If you play pbem's you know that trusted friends in one game are most dangerous enemys elsewhere and it's got nothing to do with persons. [12:22] [MasterZen] ultimately it's just a game. we're all part of the civ3 community [12:22] [MasterZen] which is why I am a bit sad that the PTWDG caused so much anger during the RP war [12:23] [Darekill] I just despice the fact that there are people that just do not see this. [12:23] [MasterZen] and the ISDG too. We really do not like GCA's attitude sometimes. [12:23] [Darekill] They take it personal. I hate that, it takes away the fun. [12:23] [MasterZen] yeah [12:24] [Darekill] Well enough said for this chat. [12:24] [Darekill] I've got to go. [12:24] [MasterZen] ok [12:24] [MasterZen] cya next week [12:24] [Darekill] I'm waiting for the draft. [12:25] [MasterZen] yes, I'll try and write it tonight or tomorrow [12:25] [Darekill] c.u. [12:25] [Darekill] Sehr gut. [12:25] [MasterZen] tres bien [12:25] [Darekill] Auf wiedersehen. [12:25] [MasterZen] au revoir End of #gow_cofa buffer Fri Jun 11 12:25:56 2004

	15-06-2004 19:52									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I do really like that plan! Make GS help us squash Lego and let ND stab GS in their back! With the poor GS politics they wont see it comming until it's too late.. =)
And in the end, depending on the situation, we can allways turn on ND.. but that would ruin the glory i guess.. but then again.. depending on the situation, because it would be really fun, now wouldn't it? :d