12-06-2004 07:04									#1
	Poll: Science of 1853 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Polytheism scroll will ripen overnight. Should we continue on with Monotheism or switch strategy to defense with War Code, then Fuedalism?? Or do you suggest another path??

My money is on Monotheism now and War Code next, if not for Fuedalism, then for Iron Working.

Monk

	12-06-2004 07:46									#2
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We've gone this path far enough that we should at least get the Crusaders. A horde of them may be our only hope to gain techs by captured cities. Better to have Crusaders than Cannons; they move faster.

	12-06-2004 08:46									#3
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Better to have Crusaders than Cannons; they move faster.

Not to mention that they (Cannons) are six techs away (Wheel, Engineering, Iron Working, Invention, Gunpowder and Metalurgy)

But that aside, I also will be voting Monotheism in the hopes that Crusaders will still have enough offensive "punch" to allow us to have armies with a chance if War is necessary.

	12-06-2004 09:51									#4
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Excellent!! I feel a consensus growing. Let's not forget that we will need barracks as well. If they aren't Vets, I fear for their survivability. A nonvet Crook is even up against a nonvet Rifle.

Monk

	12-06-2004 09:53									#5
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But a vet crusader only attacks at 7.5 I believe, and it is stated elsewhere (not sure where) that they attack at 10.

And if we do get a consensus, can a second poll be what next after that (if our Consul plays another ten turns and gets Polytheism in the first turn, I think we will get another tech choice before those 10 turns are up...especially with Caravan deliveries)?

Advance notice that I choose Physics in the hope that we will get to Magnetism (need Warrior Code and Iron Working in addition to Physics) soon and change our unhappy Caravels into happy Galleons.

	12-06-2004 11:21									#6
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Yes, you are correct, 7.5. Thanks!!

I will do other polls tomorrow, not just a second Science, but some arrangement for City Plans in the Colony. Hopefully, I will get some response to my questions there as well as feedback on the proposed build sites.

But, now it is lightout.

Monk

	12-06-2004 11:40									#7
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I voted for mono for to get us crusaders. But I think we should also be going down the engineering, sanitation route with the prospect of celebrating Apolyton up to size 20ish. I'm not sure which white goods we'll need for this, but I'm sure someone does.

RJM at Sleeper's

	12-06-2004 22:40									#8
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I think that with the arrival of Crusaders, we will be free to start a different tech path. Getting Galleons would be good for happiness and the extra movement. Getting to Gunpowder would help our defenses a lot.

	13-06-2004 01:33									#9
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quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers I voted for mono for to get us crusaders. But I think we should also be going down the engineering, sanitation route with the prospect of celebrating Apolyton up to size 20ish. I'm not sure which white goods we'll need for this, but I'm sure someone does. RJM at Sleeper's

I think it will need a Bank, a Stock Exchange, and a Cathedral. But even then I doubt we can get to 20. Oh for the love of Shakespeare!!

Monk

	13-06-2004 02:11									#10
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I think enlargement of Aploytonia beyond 12 should be the subject of a poll by the City-Planner.

Seriously, I would like to see a poll on this question.

	13-06-2004 02:52									#11
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Your wish is my command, noble leader.

My view is that we need to put some muscle on the Colony first, then go meet our fate.

Monk

	13-06-2004 02:58									#12
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Yes, we will do our best and then meet a glorious fate. And we will somehow force a victory out of this!

	13-06-2004 03:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Yes, we will do our best and then meet a glorious fate. And we will somehow force a victory out of this!

YES!!

If only we had Fundy Gov't tech. The world would shrink before "The Hammers of God!!"

We will issue forth and come back with our shields decorated or we will be on them.

Monk (needing the switch to de-caf)

	13-06-2004 08:10									#14
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Battlin' Ben bested many foes with just Calvary and cannons.

All we need is some cash!

	13-06-2004 09:02									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Battlin' Ben bested many foes with just Calvary and cannons. All we need is some cash!

...and Tactics and Metal....

But that's just detail.

Monk

	13-06-2004 23:48									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Battlin' Ben bested many foes with just Calvary and cannons. All we need is some cash!

I suppose that should either be "Calvary and Canons" or "Cavalry and Cannons". (sorry, I just couldn't pass that up)

But, yes, Cavalry and Cannons would be enough to try our luck against the world and capture some better techs.

	14-06-2004 12:47									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I think it will need a Bank, a Stock Exchange, and a Cathedral. But even then I doubt we can get to 20. Oh for the love of Shakespeare!! Monk

Did someone say JSB is still available? Presumably that would make it easier to grow Apolyton. Although I'm not sure that the research path makes it worthwhile, and it might be gone by then anyway, and it would use a lot of shields that could be spent on other things.

RJM at Sleeper's

	14-06-2004 14:39									#18
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the best defense is a good offense For example, 'may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits' is know to be very offensive in some quarters.

However, with reference to the poll above, mono first, then we can go smack some heads, get some additional techs and then conquer the world (hopefully before bedtime) muhahahaha!!!!!!

	14-06-2004 16:52									#19
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First we must be good,
then we must get better,
only then will it be possible to do our best.

	15-06-2004 04:06									#20
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quote: Calvary and Canons" or "Cavalry and Cannons"

I don't think it's a coincidence that we would do best as a Fundy.

	15-06-2004 07:23									#21
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That's very subtle, Ben.

Monk

	17-06-2004 04:54									#22
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Calvary? Isn't that in Alberta, Canada?

+ a belated 1 for Mono.

Happy Galleons sounds OK. Gunpowder (for Barracks that don't expire for some time and Muskets and leading towards Cannons) sounds better.

Should we be aiming for Tactics and Amphib Warfare? We'll likely have more luck storming a city from the sea than in trying to mass a land invasion force.

	17-06-2004 05:00									#23
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While it does sound easier to go for a sea victory rather then a land victory, the creator has proclaimed that the construction of "Ironclads" is on the path to eternal damnation, so we would also need Electricity and destroyers at least to have a chance of a navy worth it's salt. And if we are going for Electricity, we might as well go for Steel and Cruisers instead...either way though, this Minister of War will be old and grey before we fight any of those battles.

* Sparrowhawk Minister of War and Peace

	17-06-2004 05:03									#24
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I certainly wasn't suggesting the banned Superclads (despite my fondness for them since the original game's successes), but instead just Marines from Galleons or Transports. IIRC those just require Tactics and Seafaring. We'll likely need to work our way towards Tactics anyway.

	17-06-2004 05:31									#25
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Ah, I misunderstood ( I can hear the Minister of Trade calling me a Platehead already...get me my Sword so that I may sheath it in the beating heart of our Minister of Trade!).

Marines would require Amphibious Warfare (as you have stated), which has 11 prerequisites which we do not yet possess.

As for Galleons (which I too would like to see us move towards) we require Warrior Code, Iron Working and Physics to be able to research Magnetism for Galleons (with Warrior Code and Iron Working being among the 11 techs we also need for Amphibious Warfare).

And as for Transports and Industrialization? 10 techs away by my count, also including many of the techs required for Tactics.

All ambitious but achievable goals , it is for us to decide which of them we desire most, and Trade for them (says our Minister of Trade) or Acquire them by force (says our Minister of War) but I leave it to the Foreign Minister to tell both of us which way it will be (or for our Science Minister to research them all ).

	17-06-2004 06:31									#26
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Excellent post, Sparrowhawk!!

I have been thinking that we need a general discussion about our "Strategy of Research" before I fashion a new Science poll. We are cominig to a fork in the road where our decisions will need to be based on several techs ahead thinking.

Should we aim for ______??

Monk

	17-06-2004 07:41									#27
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Galleons would be helpful since they won't cause unhappiness.

I suspect, from the advancement of other civs, that the waters are filled with powerful ships we cannot even hope to contend with (given that we have forbidden ourselves super Ironclads).

We do have a chance with Crusaders against AI civ cities that are smaller and will yeild techs when captured. The AI does not tend to build City Walls in smaller cities, so that is probably our best shot. A dozen or so Crusaders may roll over several cities and get some important techs for us to use to further ramp up our attacking capacity.

I don't see another way to win the game in the time left to us. We might try to target Wonder cities, but those tend to be protected better. We may have to try those anyway.

	17-06-2004 08:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Galleons would be helpful since they won't cause unhappiness. I suspect, from the advancement of other civs, that the waters are filled with powerful ships we cannot even hope to contend with (given that we have forbidden ourselves super Ironclads). We do have a chance with Crusaders against AI civ cities that are smaller and will yeild techs when captured. The AI does not tend to build City Walls in smaller cities, so that is probably our best shot. A dozen or so Crusaders may roll over several cities and get some important techs for us to use to further ramp up our attacking capacity. I don't see another way to win the game in the time left to us. We might try to target Wonder cities, but those tend to be protected better. We may have to try those anyway.

Yes, I agree with all these thoughts. Especially if you mean Vet Crooks.

I was hoping for a bit more meaty commentary on Science goals, though. Should I take it that you prefer the Galleons path??

Monk

	17-06-2004 08:56									#29
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Oooh! There's an idea that could well speed us on our way to more options for trying to win. We really must get Crusaders, find some smaller, isolated AI cities and take them for the techs.

	17-06-2004 09:13									#30
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Oooh! There's an idea that could well speed us on our way to more options for trying to win. We really must get Crusaders, find some smaller, isolated AI cities and take them for the techs.

Yes!! That's what the cavebear and I have been advocating. Research by way of plunder.

Like, for example, we research Monotheism, take Conscription and, WooHoo!!, we are offered Fundy to research next.

Now being in Fundy will not get us much in the way of speedy research, but its other benifits will be very helpful, I think.

Monk