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MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 15-06-2004 07:25
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Now we have a city, there are several decisions we need to make. This will be hard without a few Ministers, but until we get someone(s) to do those jobs, we may as well try to decide via consensus in a thread like this which way to go.

The way I see it we have several things to decide:

1. Technology.
Right now we can research Bronze Working, Alphabet, The Wheel, Warrior Code or Ceremonial Burial. Of these Alphabet is expensive, and unless we want to beeline for Philosophy is a bit pointless IMO as Curraghs will not be of immediate use to us, as we are not quite on the coast and the world is Pangaea. WC gives us our UU, which can be used to enslave Barbs - very useful for improving cities early on! CB will be necessary for keeping citizens happy sooner rather than later - in Emperor the second citizen in a city requires a military unit or happiness improvement of some sort to keep him content. The Wheel means we will be able to find Horses on the map, and if we bothered to connect them up early we would get a speed boost in exploring this large landmass, and a head-start on huts.

2. The Worker
There has been some discussion on this already, and some favour the idea of sending the worker to the hut we see two moves away. As long as we have no military units we will not get Barbarians. There is a small possibility of a settler coming from the hut, which would be IMO the only outcome that would offset the lost terrain improving time. Other options would be to move two tiles to a floodplain and irrigate it - we would get a third food from any of those tiles, and a second trade if we roaded it OR to stay where he is and mine the hills - this would effectively give us a forest (one food, two shields) in 8 turns' time, one turn before the culture raidus expands. When the radius DOES expand, it will include the grassland to the SE of the Worker right now. We could thus go to the grassland and mine + road it, finishing in 7 turns, and having a 2 food, 1 shield and 1 trade square for when the culture radius expands.



3. The Workforce and Build Queue
The population will grow in 7 turns if we keep working that floodplain, and then we would have to increase the luxury rate to keep this citizen happy. The alternatives are: to switch to a warrior and use the Mountains for the last two turns before growth, OR to stay on the worker, and when the city grows a new worker is built the same turn (provided we use the Mountains on the last two turns), meaning we needn't worry about unhappiness just yet. However this would mean we have no warriors to defend or explore with.

Once we have these things decided we can play at least 5-9 turns and really get things rolling. Post your thoughts, and on what to do after that, so we can accelerate this game!

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 15-06-2004 08:41
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I say work the floodplain and use the capital has a settler pump

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

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Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 15-06-2004 09:01 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Philo Beeline

Pop the hut with the worker

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 15-06-2004 10:54
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Irrigating Deserts (or Plains) are better for Ag civs than mining non-Bonus Grasslands. Fewer Worker turns for the same results.

Using the Luxury slider is preferable to building Temples and using Garrisons early on, especially for Flood Plain starts where shields are at a premium.

I say we get a Settler out quickly, and go found a city that will use the 2 Oasis ASAP. They are the two best tiles we can be using in the near term. That will give us a good population pump with enough shields for a pretty fast Granary build. Then the Capital can go into production mode using FP's and Hills and Mountains.

We'll likely have to build the city 2 tiles distant (41) to be on the river and have access to both Oasis.

--------------

Are we going to use F10 as an 'oracle' to know who the other civs are? The represented traits would very much impact what I think we should research towards.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 15-06-2004 11:07
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As for the Worker, we moved onto the Hill, we might as well at least Road it while we're there. Otherwise the moves onto and off it, are waste. We want it roaded pretty early on anyways.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 15-06-2004 22:07 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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I agree with Aeson on roading the hill. That two turn waste thing to move him off and on is pointless.

I'm all for Alphabet, I would think our second city would be on the coast and we can get a lot of exploring done going in both directions along the coastline.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 16-06-2004 01:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
Irrigating Deserts (or Plains) are better for Ag civs than mining non-Bonus Grasslands. Fewer Worker turns for the same results.


EDIT: Never mind what I was going to say. If we build a worker so that the city's pop doesn't go to two straight away, we CAN irrigate a flood plain and desert relatively quickly.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 16-06-2004 14:42
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1. I suggest we build a worker first, and let our cultural borders absorb the goody hut. This way, we won't have to worry about unhappiness nor Barbarians.

2. I suggest we build two warriors then, immediately followed by a settler.

3. I suggest we use worker #1 to mine the hill (2 shields + one food won't be too shabby) and worker #2 to irrigate the flooded plains.

4. I suggest we name the units by their origin in Apolyton. This is a feudal game, and the glorious city of Apolyton has its own workfroce and army

5. Finally, I suggest we research The Wheel, because it will be a good trading chip. Without Alphabet from the start, and at Emperor difficulty, we have very little chance of discovering Philosophy first.

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:36
  Old Post 16-06-2004 16:50
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I've recently joined DG and have very little understanding of what it's about and how it works, but am keen to contribute in any way I can.

As this seems to be a new game, this may be a good opportunity for me to get involved. Could somebody point in the right direction so I can work out what this is all about?

Cheers!

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 16-06-2004 22:30 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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We pretty much discuss the situation and the Despot (eventually President) plays the game. In this one we are all going to get tiles and use them to generate money with which to buy the units in the game.

Each player will be able to give orders and instructions on what they wish to do with their units.

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 16-06-2004 23:22 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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How do we "get tiles"?

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 17-06-2004 05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by conmcb25
How do we "get tiles"?


Genghis knows this better than I, but there is a thread around with the info on the Feudal side of things. I'll find it after work.

From what I can remember though, we need to have more than a couple of tiles before we can allocate any, so the early game will be mostly normal DG anyways.


Aqualung - greetings amigo! Welcome to our little experiment! There is a general discussion thread up, and we have our first city established. If you have any ideas on what techs we should be researching first up, what to do with our worker, what to build etc, please let us know as lively debate advantages us all.

There will be a 'turnchat', where the turns will be played by me whilst consulting the other members in the Apolyton mIRC chatroom. I can (and will after work) post information on how to access that. There is a poll up to decide when this chat (or at least one of them) will be, either in about 18 hours or in about 28.

Post around, ask questions, and I and others will do all we can when we can to help you out.

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:36
  Old Post 17-06-2004 07:42
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ok, so a group of us are playing one civ, the Maya, against a bunch of AI civs as in normal SP? And the theme is Feudalism, represented by each of us "Feudal Landowners" owning one or more tiles that contribute resources to the "President" who is running the confederation of Feudal states as a nation?

Anyway, my first comment is that the Maya on flood plains makes for an incredibly powerful civ. Ag for the food bonus and Ind for the faster workers to match the flood plains growth speed. As long as we can mine enough non-flood-plains tiles, we will do very well I feel. I'd start by roading and irrigating a high food tile then moving to a production tile, probably while producing a quick worker. I'd also put the granary build back as it is not necessary on such a start.

On technology, I would go for the Whell strategy for later trade.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 17-06-2004 08:10
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As I've mentioned before, I'm iffy on exactly what the Feudal thing means. I'm just the dunb grunt who plays the turns for at least the first term, until it is decided there is enough to start the bidding

The Wheel has been mentioned before, so that's probably what we will start on As for the worker, we may road the hills we are on (will look at that a bit later), and then go on to probably irrigate a floodplain and on to a desert, as irrigating + roading one or two of them will give us a couple of grassland equivalents (for production). By then we should then Head for the Hills!(TM) for a mine, and maybe one on the Gems This will be rather quick as our first build is likely a worker (that way no unhappiness problems when we get to 2 pop - we go right back to one again!), and after then we should be looking at city #2. If we throw in a couple of warriors after the first worker, we should have a little exploring done (hopefully we build them after our culture pops that hut) and maybe one as MP to quell unhappiness issues.

Whaddaya think so far?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-06-2004 14:43
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It's good, but I think we should mine the hill first. We have the potential to expand real fast, being agricultural among floodplains. Our main problem will be shield production (to bundle our settler production with our pop growth), and the potential 2 shields from the hills will definitely be a good boost.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 17-06-2004 16:43
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I'm not sure this is the best move to start with, Spiff. Whilst we are building ten shield units we can do so in 8 turns with a floodplain and the Gems, the same time it takes to grow to pop 2. Once we have another worker and at least one warrior it could be worth it though, to go for the settler.

To be decided in chat... please look at my tentatively worked out orders, and if you can do better, by all means bring it along...

joncnunn is offline joncnunn
Emperor
Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 18-06-2004 22:30 Visit joncnunn's homepage!
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Looks to me that best approach with improving around capital is:

1. Road hill we are already on.
2. Road and Irrigate either FP north of the river.
3. Road and Irrigate both desert tiles.

Prime Candiates for second city:

4-1-1 (Flood plains south of Oasios) Potential settler pump.

3-3-3 (Plains on river on coast) Potiental Colosus Wonder site.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
Deity
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May 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 18-06-2004 22:35 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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I'm for roading the desert tiles. Flood Plains aren't that great of a Settler pump when they keep REDUCING your city size with disease.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 19-06-2004 02:08
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FP cities are annoying Settler pumps, but generally work with only 1 or 2 bumps in the road. I've had games with 3 FP pumps and no disease, and games were it was several in one city. Generally it averages a disease per city (which will take 2 pop points if you have them).

With FP's and Volcanos we sure are set up to be at the mercy of the RNG though!

The Oasis' can make for good tiles to use. No (extra) threat of disease from working them, and can give 3.1.1 (Irrigated) or 2.2.1 (Mined).

Odin is offline Odin
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Sep 2000
time: 23:36
  Old Post 21-06-2004 07:25
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I agree with Spiffor. mine, build worker pop the hut with culture expansin, Warrior, Warrior, Settler.

Agran is offline Agran
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Dec 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 23-06-2004 15:55
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I quite often play agricultural civs and usually when I start on floodplains I start off with a settler. Apparently there was no discussion about an early settler. But for my interest I'd like to hear some pros and cons.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 23-06-2004 16:07 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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I could see one Warrior (to explore) and then a Settler, but I do agree that the earlier we start expanding the better.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 23-06-2004 16:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Agran
I quite often play agricultural civs and usually when I start on floodplains I start off with a settler. Apparently there was no discussion about an early settler. But for my interest I'd like to hear some pros and cons.

The big con:
We are playing at emperor level. The city will be in unrest at pop two if we don't have a warrior

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 23-06-2004 17:59
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Not if you use the luxury slider it won't.

-Arrian, lurker-type

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 23-06-2004 18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Not if you use the luxury slider it won't.

-Arrian, lurker-type


Exactly, and we have plenty of trade around, with that river.

I am drawing up a hopeful set of orders now. That should take us at least to getting a settler. If the next play stops when the settler is built we can poll on where to build the next city too.

Esoteric is offline Esoteric
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Time is bunk.
Apr 2004
time: 05:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 01:31
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Wow- 24kbps...

Now that I can get here again, and now that Apolyton remembers me, I can finally say:


ALOHA!

When can I get a tile and start to get RICH$$$$

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 04:28
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Presumably in two turnchats, Esoteric.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 04:28
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Arrian:
I never thought of this trick. It's excellent, thanks for sharing

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
Deity
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May 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:52 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Arrian:
I never thought of this trick. It's excellent, thanks for sharing

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 07:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Arrian:
I never thought of this trick. It's excellent, thanks for sharing


Single faction/player DGs.... where people LEARN STUFF about the game.

In your face ACDGII and III!

 
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