16-06-2004 14:28									#1
	[DESIGN] AI Ignoring huts Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok i dont think its a good idea to get bogged down with AI problems, fixes etc etc this early on

But one little change would help the AI considerably

Currently the AI is oblivious to goodie huts and on contrast the player will generally send out a scout or two primarly to get goody huts.

This puts the player at a huge advantage, (extra cities, technology, units and cash etc) [and hopefully more like reveal surrounding terrain as the project deepens)

It would be nice if an AI unit (depending on wat it was and wat it was doing) would, if it came into the radius of a hut, reroute to collect the hut, then carry on with its previous task/route

Simple as it may sound, this small yet simple thing would undoubtably help the AI and the Player stay on level par, at least for longer.

(eventually maybe the AI could build scout class units primiarly to find goody huts (like players do), this would help considerably, however is not wat i am proposing in this thread as the project is not that far into development)

What do u think?

P.S. This should have been "[AI]" not "[DESIGN]"

	16-06-2004 14:40									#2
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Actually were you mentioned, we could change this to an absolute abstract model:

Everytime you (or the AI) moves a unit there is a chance of (example) 0.01% of an event. This will decrease even further with every turn.

So all complete: chance=0.01% / number of turns

And we could say a minmum level or a certain tech (or both) to assume all goody huts have been used.


running for cover

	16-06-2004 15:05									#3
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The AI currently doesn't ignore goody huts, just the ones that contain Barbarians

	16-06-2004 15:18									#4
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Didn't know this one.........

But then on the other hand, when you go to an unexplored goody hut on the AI's territory, why you don't get barbs?

	16-06-2004 15:42									#5
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Just because a hut is in AI territory, doesn't necessarily mean the AI has found it yet. Plus, hut exploring isn't the highest priority for the AI.

	16-06-2004 16:30									#6
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So the AI knows anyway, which huts contain barbs is it the same for other players? Never bothered about checking I must admit (in other words)

I thought that the result of the goody hut is random (based on the initial randomness) ?

	16-06-2004 19:00									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch I thought that the result of the goody hut is random (based on the initial randomness) ?

Yes, the outcome of the goody hut is random but the outcome is determined at the start of the game and not when you open the goody hut. That's a difference between Civ2 and CTP1/2. In Civ2 you can save before you enter a goody hut and reload and reload until you got the outcome you like. In CTP2 you just can check whether you like the outcome or not this way. So if you get Barbs you can wait until you have got a huge stack of the most modern equiped units so that you can punish the Barbs for their present. Note you shouldn't do it with obsolete units, because the Barbs in the hut own the very modern equipment.

-Martin

	16-06-2004 19:10									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Yes, the outcome of the goody hut is random but the outcome is determined at the start of the game and not when you open the goody hut. That's a difference between Civ2 and CTP1/2. In Civ2 you can save before you enter a goody hut and reload and reload until you got the outcome you like. In CTP2 you just can check whether you like the outcome or not this way. So if you get Barbs you can wait until you have got a huge stack of the most modern equiped units so that you can punish the Barbs for their present. Note you shouldn't do it with obsolete units, because the Barbs in the hut own the very modern equipment. -Martin

But my question there:

Is it the same for every player? (the result of the goody hut)

	16-06-2004 21:38									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Just because a hut is in AI territory, doesn't necessarily mean the AI has found it yet. Plus, hut exploring isn't the highest priority for the AI.

Yes - if you see a hut in an explored part of the AI civs territory, its best to leave it well alone unless you have a few good units that can defend themselves - i hate loseing scouts this way!!

	16-06-2004 21:47									#10
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Gilg,
To the best of my knowledge it is (but I didn't actually check the code for that).

	17-06-2004 00:42									#11
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Last time I found a goody hut the barbarians thought I was small fry and left my scout alone.

is this the right thread to pass some goody hut ideas around in.

	17-06-2004 12:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Gilg, To the best of my knowledge it is (but I didn't actually check the code for that).

Would be interresting to know, not as an exploit, but as an discussion point to get rid of. Don't really like AI-cheating (same goes for the human).

And BigMc, I think it is the right thread (as I did already)

	17-06-2004 19:33									#13
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The AI not getting barbarians in goody huts is a cheat I do not mind.

	17-06-2004 21:26									#14
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Here a few new ideas I had for the modification to goodie huts.

Slaves / pop

You find a group of refuges suffering persecution at the hands of there government. And you get the chance to welcome them or enslave them

Resource pile

You find a pile of recourses which speed up production in your nerest city or is added to pw

Map
Old idea of gaining a map

Good
The old hide the good till you come and have a look-see

Heel
Villages great you solders with wine and food. Resulting in you man getting legless and destroying the village. Oh and getting heeled in the mean time.

Happy
Entering the village you find you trade a few pieces of mouldy food for some treasure ensuring the happiness of many in the nearest city.

Death
You unit is never seen or herd of again.



Apart from that what about if we get space up and running space goodie huts or underwater goody huts.

	17-06-2004 22:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch But my question there: Is it the same for every player? (the result of the goody hut)

Well I would assume that it is the same for every civ, otherwise a hut should have a list for every civ with the outcome, and makes the object hut bigger, meaning it consumps more memory, and the list would need extension when a new civ is inserted. In the end it would mean some additional programming. In my opinion the additional effords aren't worth the gain. And then the AI wouldn't need to know whether a hut contains Babarians or not, for AIs huts would never contain Barbarians. And even if it would be differentz for each civ in that case I would expect some refference in the risk.txt.

Above I use the term civ and that is no accident. Whenever I play with the Barbarian I don't find anything in huts. - No reinforcement.

-Martin

	18-06-2004 00:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc Here a few new ideas I had for the modification to goodie huts.

Slaves / pop
Resource pile but how realistic is this one?
Map
Good
Heel explain this one again...
Happy pointless if only 1 turn/difficult to implement if to last more than 1 turn
Death basically the same as barbarians

space goodie huts - These are a LONG way off
underwater goody huts - But you do not find goodies laying around in the ocean

	18-06-2004 03:19									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx Resource pile but how realistic is this one?

Very large amounts of resourses ( normaly preses things) can be stored in a villege that trades eg ion coal etc

quote: Good

many villages are built in areas of goods and remain small because of the limited revenue from these recourses from traders.

quote: Heel explain this one again...

Your units are help by tribes people living in the goody huts. Repairing a unit as if it was in a city.

quote: Death basically the same as barbarians

No not really this version just kills you unit not make a small army of barbarians which could take over a small city.

quote: underwater goody huts - But you do not find goodies laying around in the ocean

Yes you do find underwater goodies.

There are underwater ruins from both the time of the last ice age and geological disturbance. The treasure found in these could be priceless if found.

	18-06-2004 04:18									#18
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Your unit is enticed by the ways/beliefs/benifits (watever they maybe) of the minor civ/tribe and switches allegiance to the minor civs/tribes side

Rare and cannot happen to veteran units

I say Minor Civ, as i have mentioned the idea of minor civs before in an old thread (anyone played "Birth of the federation" ?) it was a very strong feature of the game and has not (afaik) been incoprated into any other civ type game (or TBS) i can think of.
Would add another superb concept to CTP2 if it was incoprated

I will explain if anyone wants me too (if not i will wait till later development into CTP2 source code project )

	18-06-2004 04:26									#19
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quote: Note you shouldn't do it with obsolete units, because the Barbs in the hut own the very modern equipment.

So if I enter a Barb hut in the Modern age then Barb tanks will pop up?

	18-06-2004 04:38									#20
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i mentioned in another thread about barbarians changing to terrorists later in the game, and opting for more unconventional techniques

hmm, ill have to dig up all these old threads of mine

	18-06-2004 04:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc Your units are help by tribes people living in the goody huts. Repairing a unit as if it was in a city.

Oh you mean HEAL as in 'cure' or more appropriately 'restore to health'. I do not like this one. The results of a goody hut should always be available

quote: Yes you do find underwater goodies. There are underwater ruins from both the time of the last ice age and geological disturbance. The treasure found in these could be priceless if found.

quote: Originally posted by Solver So if I enter a Barb hut in the Modern age then Barb tanks will pop up?

Yes

quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG Your unit is enticed by the ways/beliefs/benifits (watever they maybe) of the minor civ/tribe and switches allegiance to the minor civs/tribes side. Rare and cannot happen to veteran units

This is a good idea. Easiest to have the unit become a Barbarian unit. (Goody hut result chances are in the text files so they can be moded)

	18-06-2004 21:03									#22
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This may be hard but could we make a new txt file with this stuff in it would not need much. Possibly a bit of slic

Example

quote: Number of ruins 2 ############################### Ruin 1 { msg = ruin1 addgold (100,player[0]) } ############################### Ruin 2 { msg = ruin2 addpw (100,player[0]) } ###############################

	18-06-2004 22:49									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc This may be hard but could we make a new txt file with this stuff in it would not need much. Possibly a bit of slic

And what is the sense behind this text file, The Big Mc?

-Martin

	18-06-2004 23:02									#24
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Simple i stand for the litle bloke in the corner who cant code . besides it will a good idea to make this as modable as posible.

	21-06-2004 09:47									#25
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The risks.txt file contains the information related to goody huts.

What are you suggesting?

	21-06-2004 12:12									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Well I would assume that it is the same for every civ, otherwise a hut should have a list for every civ with the outcome, and makes the object hut bigger, meaning it consumps more memory, and the list would need extension when a new civ is inserted. In the end it would mean some additional programming. In my opinion the additional effords aren't worth the gain. And then the AI wouldn't need to know whether a hut contains Babarians or not, for AIs huts would never contain Barbarians. And even if it would be differentz for each civ in that case I would expect some refference in the risk.txt. Above I use the term civ and that is no accident. Whenever I play with the Barbarian I don't find anything in huts. - No reinforcement. -Martin

Sorry Martin, you got me wrong. It was about what Flinx has already answered.

	22-06-2004 01:42									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx The risks.txt file contains the information related to goody huts. What are you suggesting?

risk.txt just tell the chance of a event .


what I want is a txt file where I can specify events