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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:36
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1853 - Stop Xinning. Adjust tax to 20/60/20. Change Apolytonia Settler to Caravan.
1854 - Discover Polytheism, start Monotheism.  Salt to Giza, 100G  and beakers 1/3 to Monotheism!  Explorer moves west and finds end of land. Beads become available in Apolytonia. Buy or Rush: Caralis Settler for 13G, Cartenna Temple 50G, Malaca Settler 82G, Panama Settler 79G, Two Whales Temple 32G. Utica will finish Settler next turn on its own.
1855 - Settlers and Temples built, start Colosseums. Explorer moves south along coast. One Caravel explores east of Giza to search for larger city for trading. The other Caravel heads back to Apolytonia.
1856 - Exploring Caravel reveals unknown irrigation and Egyptian Engineer on coast.  Settlers move toward new city sites. Utica Settler starts Road.
1857 - City of 'Rusicade' established, starts Temple. Exploring Caravel stops next to Zulu Destroyer and asks politely for directions to nearby cities.  Explorer explores.
1858 - Arrogant Zulus run over Caravel and sink it.  I told the crew not to laugh at any strange uniforms of people they might come across, but "NOOO"...  If they hadn't drowned I'd have HAD them drowned  (It was witnessed by a traveller).  Apolytonia builds Bead Caravan, starts Caravel. Remaining Caravel arrives at port and loads Bead Caravan, heads west (seems unfriendly eastward). City of 'Gades' established, starts Temple. City of 'Rusucurru' established, starts Temple. 
Explorer bumps into fellow Explorer, a Persian (Receptive); not expecting to find anyone in this desolate area. After a pleasent evening of roasted rabbits (provided by our Explorer)and pipe tobacco (provided by our Explorer), the Persian suddenly aims a metal rod at our Explorer and demands 350G in tribute. Our guy pulls his sword and refuses.  The Persian hesitates and offers to sell secret of "Gunpowder" for 350G instead. After long and cautious negotiations (with demonstrations), our Explorer agrees. Bills of sales and promissary notes are drawn up and the Persian departs.  Later that night, our Explorer wakes up and admires the starry sky briefly before realizing that the Persian came back and stole the tent! 
Buy Rusicade Temple (76G) to get G balance below 50. Balance is 32G.
1859 - We discover Monotheism and start Warrior Code. Explorer find southern polar ice and returns north fearing isolation on the ice. Beads Caravel continues west.
1860 - Explorer moves north, Bead Caravel west.
1861 - Celts build Bach's. Bead Caravel moves west, still closest to Caralis. One Settler building Road. 
1862 - Caravel is now closest to a city named 'Rhayader'.  Explorer explores.
1863 - Apolytonia completes Caravel and Senate passes law against it being run over by Destroyers ($1,000G fine). Aploytonia starts Caravan in anticipation of soon-to-be-delivered Bead Caravan. Explorer completes survey of all western colony land, awaits new orders. Over 1/2 way to Warrior Code.
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Bloody Monk
And the save?? Please don't forget the save. |
Posted.
quote:
Did you explore along the coast from Killdeer to Utica?? |
The immediate coastline is explored. Rather than repeat the exploration, I thought I had a request to find larger cities to trade with, so I went east.
quote:
I can't believe you set all those cities building white goods all at the same time. |
While I won't do anything suicidal, I did have clear instructions for the colony cities: "Temples, Colosseums, Settlers". So the places that had Temples were set to build Colosseums. I take my guidance from the Ministers very seriously. 
quote:
It usually works better, especially when other things are on the build list, to build major white goods one or two at a time; and only where there is enough cash to rush build them after a turn of regular building. If disaster strikes and our cities get jumped, we will have to switch to mil-units and half the accumulated shields will be wasted.  Hopefully, all will be well. |
You have some conflicting desires there. I was supposed to get gold below 50 and it takes a lot more than that to buy Colosseums. So I could never accumulate enough Gold to buy an early-stage Colosseums anyway (usually about 150G. I bought Temples when I could. Further, you have already pointed out (and I agree) that if our cities are attacked, we are doomed anyway. We have no defense that will stand up to any real attack. With Crusaders and Musketeers, that may change (if we want to build them immediately). And I will remind you again of the general build order I received.
quote:
It usually works better, especially when other things are on the build list, to build major white goods one or two at a time; and only where there is enough cash to rush build them after a turn of regular building. If disaster strikes and our cities get jumped, we will have to switch to mil-units and half the accumulated shields will be wasted. Hopefully, all will be well. |
You have some conflicting desires there. I was supposed to get gold below 50 and it takes a lot more than that to buy Colosseums. So I could never accumulate enough Gold to buy an early-stage Colesseum anyway (usually about 150G. I bought Temples when I could. Further, you have already pointed out (and I agree) that if our cities are attacked, we are doomed anyway. We have no defense that will stand up to any real attack. With Crusaders and Musketeers, that may change (if we want to build them immediately). And I will remind you again of the general build order I received.
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Bloody Monk
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austin, tx
May 2001
time: 23:36
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**"I take my guidance from the Ministers very seriously. "
Really?? This was the guidance...
For the Colony...
Build more cities got the most votes, with adding Colosseums when necessary second, in one poll. In a second slightly different poll, 4 of 7 voted for the Consensus Plan...
--Keep building Settlers until we get a workable mass of cities
--Add Temples and Colosseums as needed
--Keep a force of Settlers on hand for roads, etc
Notice the words, 'when necessary' and 'as needed'?? How about, 'Keep building Settlers'?? Is this taking guidance very seriously?? Oh, and wink wink.
**And then there is this..."I was supposed to get gold below 50 and it takes a lot more than that to buy Colosseums."
The suggestion was for 1 Colosseum and 1 Barracks both in Utica. Not everywhere, now, all at once.
Do you really and truly not understand the difference??
**And then there was this..."And I will remind you again of the general build order I received. "
How is blatant disregard and subsequent misrepresentation of the Polls and ACTUAL orders you received cool??
I think I do not understand this game format.
Monk
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Bloody Monk
**"I take my guidance from the Ministers very seriously. "
Really?? This was the guidance...
For the Colony...
Build more cities got the most votes, |
I built more cities. There was discussion of problems resulting from building too many until we had potential happiness problems under control (as in might be redheads demanding Temples upon establishment)
quote:
with adding Colosseums when necessary second, in one poll. In a second slightly different poll, 4 of 7 voted for the Consensus Plan...
--Keep building Settlers until we get a workable mass of cities
--Add Temples and Colosseums as needed
--Keep a force of Settlers on hand for roads, etc |
Which is exactly what I have done. I got a workable mass of cities (10). I made sure there were Temples in each city (or being built). To build population, we can't keep building new Settlers (lowers population and gets our city-count to automatic unhappiness)
We can't build Settlers and increase our city population at the same time.
We wanted Colosseums to allow city-growth, and the Colosseums take time to build, so they have to be started early.
quote:
Notice the words, 'when necessary' and 'as needed'?? How about, 'Keep building Settlers'?? Is this taking guidance very seriously?? Oh, and wink wink. |
You don't get something you need by starting to build it when you need it. It takes time and you know that as well as I do. Especially when I was told to keep the gold supply below 50 to avoid tribute demands (and we had such a demand). If you have a plan to rushbuild whitegoods when you are told not to keep a gold reserve, I'm willing to listen! I can't buy stuff with gold I'm not to have available!
quote:
**And then there is this..."I was supposed to get gold below 50 and it takes a lot more than that to buy Colosseums."
The suggestion was for 1 Colosseum and 1 Barracks both in Utica. Not everywhere, now, all at once.
Do you really and truly not understand the difference?? |
Oddly, yes, I do. It's a good thing I didn't rush the Barracks; it would have just been sold as obsolete when we gor Gunpowder. And I've started the Colosseum in Utica. What is good for one Colony city is generally good for the others. It will be best in the long run. We deliver trade goods to large AI cities and we will have the gold to rush the Colosseums and the Colloseums will allow celebrating in the colony cities once we get their population to the required size.
OK? (type "yes")
quote:
How is blatant disregard and subsequent misrepresentation of the Polls and ACTUAL orders you received cool?? |
I followed the sum of the orders and the general discussion as best I could. If you disagree, vote against me next time. Actually, I think you would be a fine President for the next term. I could use a break. I don't want ANY office in July.
As far as your claim of "blatant disregard and subsequent misrepresentation of the Polls and ACTUAL orders" goes, I just disregard that as inaccurate. Sorry. I followed *everyone's* general guidance more than you seem to think I did.
quote:
I think I do not understand this game format. |
That is correct, but you are catching on fast. I'm actually pretty impressed. But you are getting along only on your knowledge of the game (which is considerable) rather than quite connecting to the idea of negotiating the competing views of many people when it comes down to the final instructions to the President on how to play the next session.
There is a lot I don't know about the game. But I'm generally good about balancing the desires of the various Ministers and Citizens. Just like in real life, it takes more than technical ability/skill to balance the desires of multiple participants in a democracy game.
Food for thought...
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Bloody Monk
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austin, tx
May 2001
time: 23:36
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cavebear,
You want food for thought??
You "claim" that you balance everyone's wishes and strictly follow the polls and directives, and that I have a lot more to learn concerning this. But, there was a specific poll question that got zero votes for stopping the building of cities when the first redhead appears. Vox populi was to keep on building more cities. So isn't it true that you did not actually follow your instructions on this??
You are running a Republic with a 7g/turn surplus with a group of size 1-2 cities for which you are everywhere slow building white goods that are, for the most part, currently unnecessary. Received wisdom suggests this is not an efficient way to play. It is usually thought best to build them in one or two cities at a time as available cash allows, by building one turn then rushing the rest of the shields. (Had you done it that way, the Barracks would not have been built and lost in Utica --as you claimed-- but the Colosseum would have, which would have resulted in a lower cash demand for Gunpowder.)
I was just pointing out something that I thought you would want to know. It has been my impression that learning about better/different ways of doing things was one of the features of this format.
Your response to this proffered help, however, especially your usage and placement of smilies, seemed sarcastic (with ) and smug ( ) and generally defensive; and the blaming me for offering bad polls and Minister Reports is very strange. At least I offered something. And I worked very hard trying to think of all kinds of permutations and points of view for the many polls and suggestions that I offered. I shouldn't have bothered.
But, hey, I am the new guy here and I don't need to be right. It's just a game after all. You can play it any way you want; and, I feel sure you will.
Good luck, and thanks for all the bananas.
Monk
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cavebear
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of the Pleistocene
Oct 1999
time: 00:36
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Monk -
First, I should mention that the "cool" smiley at the end of my posts is a sort of signature (a personal joke that I have to wear glasses to see the computer screen), not a comment. You had no way of knowing that, and I now realize that the smiley could be misinterpreted.
Second, the "wink" smiley was not meant to be sarcastic; I guess it should have been a regular smile.
Third, if I made some errors in play, you are right to point them out. I do not take that personally, nor were my comments to you meant in that way. I followed the various Ministerial recommendations as well as I could collect them and as closely as I could. There were some conflicting desires (that's normal). We want Settlers for new cities, but we also want our cities to grow large enough to celebrate them to size 8. We want enough gold at one time to rush infrastucture, but we also want to keep our gold below 50. We want Caravels to explore, but we also want them busy carrying Caravans for gold and beakers. I'm sure you would have played out the recommendations differently, as would anyone else. That's OK, too.
Fourth, I don't think I criticized your polls. I thought they were good ones. 
Fifth, You are quite correct that I should have spent down our gold faster and that the Gunpowder would have cost us less. I wish I had. That was a mistake. 
Sixth, I hope your last sentence doesn't mean you are leaving. I said I was impressed and I meant it.
Now, let's take the situation as it stands and go on from there. If starting the Colosseums in so many cities was a mistake, help me get us out of it. Perhaps some of them should be switched to Barracks. Perhaps there are other solutions.
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19-06-2004 05:13
Attachment: 
Attachment: 
You are correct, that was a Cruiser. 
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