20-06-2004 16:51									#1
	Foreign Affairs - what should I do? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As I posted a poll just now, I have realised there's nothing else I can think of straight away for this position to do, sans Diplomats and where we are in such a fragile state.

So, I came up with one idea - I could use tricks such as the Find City one to locate some other civs, and direct our explorations/trade missions. This would be easy enough. However, I have heard mention some of us may not believe this tactic is in the spirit of our challenge this game.

What do people think? I'm pretty sure cavey will be easy on it, and that BM would encourage use of it, but then I think possibly rjm may oppose it. I will follow the will of the people here...

Oh, and if there's anything else that someone can come up with that I should be doing or polling on, that would be appreciated. I have seen (reading those threads in the last week or so that I have missed here) that there were Ministers anxious the Foreign Affairs Guy should come up with some polls/info for them, but I cannot really think of what more I can do until we have more strength, we find a civ in a weakened enough state to potentially bully around, or we get Spies.

	20-06-2004 22:50									#2
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:hmm: Hmm, good question MWIA, and as one of those asking for some input from our Foreign Minister, I feel I should attempt to answer. First of all, your poll on contacting the AI is much appreciated, as we can see if the population even wants contact with the other civs.

Secondly, as Minister of War, I must know if we are to prepare for any specific attack (we are at peace or have contact with everyone, but are at war with no one). In order to maintain our required "spotless" reputation, I need to know if we are to go at war with anyone specific or just prepare for war. Hence, I would like to see a poll on whether we should initiate/instigate war with any specific civs (and I am only assuming this is the role of the Foreign Minister...to determine who we are to war with, it is the role of the Minister of War to carry out this war once it has been declared correct?

Further, as Minister of Trade I would like to have some additional cities to trade with (we currently have the choice of the Egyptian cities of Giza or Kildeer). Though I doubt any civs will agree to map exchange, I would like to see us at least ask them (or the receptive/neutral ones at least). Right now it doesn't make sense for our Colony cities to trade with Giza or Kildeer, so we haven't been constructing Caravans, but without trade, our already bleak position looks impossible to me to overcome.

	21-06-2004 04:08									#3
	Re: Foreign Affairs - what should I do? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt As I posted a poll just now, I have realised there's nothing else I can think of straight away for this position to do, sans Diplomats and where we are in such a fragile state.

I have to agree it is difficult to think of Foreign Minister polls, given our prohibition against Diplomats and our subsequent lack of embassies. Kind of hard to be Foreign Minister when we can't see what a civ is doing, or has.

quote: So, I came up with one idea - I could use tricks such as the Find City one to locate some other civs, and direct our explorations/trade missions. This would be easy enough. However, I have heard mention some of us may not believe this tactic is in the spirit of our challenge this game. What do people think? I'm pretty sure cavey will be easy on it, and that BM would encourage use of it, but then I think possibly rjm may oppose it. I will follow the will of the people here...

As I posted elsewhere, I would be somewhat reluctant but not unwilling. Black-clicking and "find city" are not the *worst* things to do, but I would want a majority of Citizens to agree on those first.

quote: Oh, and if there's anything else that someone can come up with that I should be doing or polling on, that would be appreciated. I have seen (reading those threads in the last week or so that I have missed here) that there were Ministers anxious the Foreign Affairs Guy should come up with some polls/info for them, but I cannot really think of what more I can do until we have more strength, we find a civ in a weakened enough state to potentially bully around, or we get Spies.

As I said above, it's hard to think of polls you could post. Until we get Spies (if ever) there isn't much to base a poll on. Maybe we can capture the Marco Polo's or the UN...

	21-06-2004 04:27									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk I would like to see a poll on whether we should initiate/instigate war with any specific civs (and I am only assuming this is the role of the Foreign Minister...to determine who we are to war with, it is the role of the Minister of War to carry out this war once it has been declared correct?

Erm, to make things difficult it's quite possible this is our JOINT responsibility. However, I hope we would not even consider such an idea until we had a few troops around, else it's suicide. Perhaps, depending on the builds, by the end of the next session we will be able to send some troops somewhere (if a decent enough chance appears), but seeing so few cities it looks quite risky to me.

So, Mr Minister of War, when do YOU think we will be able to take the fight to the enemy?

	21-06-2004 05:07									#5
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My thought is that the Foreign Minister has a lot to do about WHO we make war on and the Minister of War decides HOW.

Just my opinion...

	21-06-2004 07:21									#6
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I agree with Cavebear, and if our Foreign Minister can let me know our first target (I like the Sioux personnally ) then I can start suggesting that we build approipriate units to begin our attack.

If however we decide to attack the Zulus first, I will arrange to have the appropriate monuments erected (some to honour our fallen heroes and some smaller monuments, engraved with "R.I.P." )

If people don't want to start our military yet then my role will remain limited, I am just not sure i want to keep rolling the dice that no other civs are thinking about targets

* Sparrowhawk Minister of War

	21-06-2004 08:37									#7
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My recollection of the Sioux is that they gain gold illegally fast, are slow to initiate attack, and are very good at attacking once activated. Is this just randomly bad experience, or is that a general trait of the Sioux?

	21-06-2004 10:25									#8
	Re: Foreign Affairs - what should I do? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt So, I came up with one idea - I could use tricks such as the Find City one to locate some other civs, and direct our explorations/trade missions. This would be easy enough. However, I have heard mention some of us may not believe this tactic is in the spirit of our challenge this game. What do people think? I'm pretty sure cavey will be easy on it, and that BM would encourage use of it, but then I think possibly rjm may oppose it. I will follow the will of the people here...

I can live with "find city" - it seems to me that the designers of the game must have intended that to be available. I suppose the rationale is that people would have a rough idea about the location of big cities and those that had built wonders. I oppose "black clicking" which seems to me to be an unintended game design error. I'm not keen on hut finder which seems to explot a design weakness, but although I wouldn't use it myself, I can live with someone else using it. I can't make up my mind about the unit location trick, but I suspect it is a design error.

Having said all that, I'm not convinced that the results of a detailed attempt to explore the map without leaving home would be worth your effort. But if there is a particular civ you think we should contact - either for trade or war - then you may as well work out the general direction to send out explorer, van or ship.

RJM at Sleeper's

	21-06-2004 10:28									#9
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear My thought is that the Foreign Minister has a lot to do about WHO we make war on and the Minister of War decides HOW. Just my opinion...

This seems reasonable to me - with the addition that the minister of war probably has a major influence on when as well.

RJM at Sleeper's

	21-06-2004 11:23									#10
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I am happy with any minister elected by the people to use any tricks his conscience will allow.

	21-06-2004 11:29									#11
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You could just do what most politicians do.. form a focus group to discuss anything but the issue, then go on a country wide fact finding mission, consult with the UN, then do the exact opposite to what your consituants want you to do.

	22-06-2004 05:07									#12
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quote: My thought is that the Foreign Minister has a lot to do about WHO we make war on and the Minister of War decides HOW.

I've been both, and I like this position. You decide who we backstab, then the MOW has to decide how to conduct the war.

	22-06-2004 05:43									#13
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By nearness and apparent relative weakness, I think we should attack the Egyptians (when we are ready of course).

	22-06-2004 18:29									#14
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OK, with rjm saying he doesn't mind the Find City tactic then I will go ahead and use that to see whether we can find some nice juicy Wonder-filled cities to trade with.

Hutfinder is still contentious, I currently don't know how to use it, and I don't think it's my job to do so anyway, so that's out for the moment. Black clicking I'd need to practice, and would doubtless be as mind-numbingly boring as it is in SMAC, so I'll leave that for the moment anyway. The unit finder one is something I've not heard of.

So - next poll is who is our first target - and when!

	23-06-2004 11:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt The unit finder one is something I've not heard of.

In the city window of a unit's home city, it tells you which city the unit is closest to you. Thus you can tell when a unit is closer to an AI civ city than any of yours, even if you don't know the location of that city. This can sometimes be used to estimate the position of that city - particularly if you check it each game turn. It's more useful to the person playing the game than to someone who only has access to the game save.

RJM at Sleeper's