22-06-2004 04:54									#1
	Micco destroyed - CGN finished on home continent :( Support Apolyton

That's right, Micco was overrun this past turn by GWT Ansar Warriors. All that remains of CGN now is the city of Remembrance, which we have gifted to them on our continent.

We can hope that GWT suffered losses in the fight, but their forces are going to be headed home starting next turn (some perhaps even this turn).

I'm betting that we can still raze Ruhrpott and surrounding cities without too much trouble, but CFC's mission may be absolute suicide and our own Parthe strike becomes more perilous if GWT stations their forces very far north of Flamburg (as long as they are at least 1 turn away from Parthe, we can raze it before they can do anything about it).

	22-06-2004 05:05									#2
	Re: Micco destroyed - CGN finished on home continent :( Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I'm betting that we can still raze Ruhrpott and surrounding cities without too much trouble,

Yep, they still shouldn't be able to reach Ruhrpott quite in time.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos but CFC's mission may be absolute suicide

Yes, they could very well run smack in to returning forces.

We should consider calling it off.

Could they attempt to join us in the Parthemunde area? I don't have a map up right now...

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos and our own Parthe strike becomes more perilous if GWT stations their forces very far north of Flamburg (as long as they are at least 1 turn away from Parthe, we can raze it before they can do anything about it).

Assuming they don't station a smaller force, say of MIs, in that area just in case. But 9 knights will have a chance if the Ansars are out of reach.

	22-06-2004 05:14									#3
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9 knights should defeat anything they can muster if their Ansars are out of reach. I doubt they have anything more than the occassional token slowmover stationed anywhere in the entire region. Their slow movers are all down in former CGN territory, I'd bet.

The risk is if their Ansar warriors are within 1 turn's movement of Parthe. If so, we're in deep trouble. 9 knights will just get eaten for breakfast.

The good news is that Parthe is far enough north of their main reinforcement route to Ruhrpott that even if the invasions are apart in time, their moving forces toward Ruhrpott will not be able to turn around and confront us at Parthe in 1 turn's time. The trick is hoping they don't station a secondary Ansar force in their north to guard against that chance.

We're going to have to hope that they send ALL of their available core Ansar Warriors to confront us at Ruhrpott so that their north is open and vulnerable to our strike on Parthe.

It's a gamble, but I think it just might work...

	22-06-2004 05:36									#4
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hopefully GWT won't transfer any ansars north via galley, there should be a handful in the area...

	22-06-2004 05:49									#5
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The city wasn't captured, CGN abandoned it.

	22-06-2004 06:28									#6
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Trip is correct. They abandoned it.

See the screenshots thread.

It was probably their best move with that big a stack approaching.

	22-06-2004 06:54									#7
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I'm not so sure of that.

Now CGN has no city defense bonus and no fortification bonus and they're still within range of attack...

	22-06-2004 07:04									#8
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well, abandoning it is pretty much the most stupid thing they could do, the idea is to at least have GWT bleed while taking it. I doubt CGN is that stupid...

...


anyway, even if CFC's mission is suicide it does serve 2 main purposes:

1) any units that attack CFC units may lose time moving north

2) GWT is likely to lose at least one unit vs CFC's riders, that will propell CFC into their GA.


Unfortunately, the CFC stack cannot make it to Parthe with the same timeline as us.

	22-06-2004 07:07									#9
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Yeah, but who wants to tell CFC that their mission is doomed and all their units don't even have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving?

	22-06-2004 07:12									#10
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We have to tell them?

	22-06-2004 07:17									#11
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People were up in arms (well, E_T at least) when I said I believed CFC's part was suicidal not too long ago and hadn't told everyone.

	22-06-2004 07:21									#12
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One thing we should keep in mind here is that sacrificing those CFC units may not be in our own best interests.

We've discussed before that if GWT plans on invading our continent, they're likely to attempt to hit CFC's lands first since they are weaker. If CFC throws a bunch of their units down the toilet, does that really help our alliance's situation?

A lot will depend on timing. How close with GWT's Ansar forces be to CFC when they make their landing and WHERE will they make their landing.

Personally, I recommend that CFC lands on the mountain tiles near Flam and sticks to mountains. At least they can tie up more GWT forces that way and force them to attack Riders in the mountains if they attack them at all.

	22-06-2004 07:23									#13
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Meh...

With the way things are, unless we can deliver the coup de grace to GWT before they get Nav, I think things will get really ugly. They already have a pretty significant fleet and plenty of time to build more boats in the meantime. Imagine the chaos that would ensue if 25 GWT Caravels appeared off of CFC's coast. They'd fall like a house of cards, 10 Riders more or not.

	22-06-2004 07:35									#14
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Does anyone know why CGN abandoned Micco?

	22-06-2004 08:50									#15
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Miccofl said that they didn't want to give GWT/GCA another size 12 city since they had no chance at holding it.

	22-06-2004 10:21									#16
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what dumbasses


If we end up facing a massive Ansar force in Ruhrpott, I'll lay the blame squarely on their ineptitude.

	22-06-2004 12:04									#17
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I'm pretty disapointed they didn't hold out as well MZ.

But, what miccofl told me was that they don't plan on giving GWT nor GCA peace anytime soon. With their units on the boats they will just cruise around and with the ability to land and attack neither GWT nor GCA can demand peace within 5 turns. This will help to slown down our enemies economies. Now, where will these CGN Galley's cruise around? Tell them to stear South for now since we don't want GWT to start having to patrol for CGNGalley's up North; at least not right now.

	22-06-2004 17:42									#18
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Goddamnit.

So instead of forcing GWT to attack a bunch of musketmen fortified in a city with the capital bonus (so 125% defense bonus for a total of NINE defense), they toast the city and wander off with 6 muskets?

As with many of the things they have done, I can only say what the ****?

-Arrian

	22-06-2004 19:06									#19
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Because of this, GWT's slow movers can be in Beta, the very turn that CFC is supposed to land.

BUT (and this is the real kicker), GWT can have it's Ansar force, withing striking distance, at the time and place of out main landing.

This is an unmitigated disaster.

[EDIT]I had sent Miccofl an e-mail about it, after it had happened, and this was his responce

quote: Well the choice to do so was made by all remaining participants and was unanimous (the idea was to deny them the fun of firing all those cats and deny them the city.)

So, they are unamimously stupid....[/edit]

E_T

	22-06-2004 19:19									#20
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Did it not enter their minds that a size 12 city all the way down there was not going to be of use to GWT? And of far less use to GCA (who are NOT a threat ATM) then it was, and still could have been, to CGN?

	22-06-2004 20:08									#21
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I'm not even sure what to say anymore. Except, they better get damn lucky, or we're screwed

	22-06-2004 20:12									#22
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I wish we could just vox them once we get their freebie

	22-06-2004 21:20									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master I'm not even sure what to say anymore. Except, they better get damn lucky, or we're screwed

WE'D better get that damned Lucky.

	22-06-2004 23:07									#24
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quote: Well the choice to do so was made by all remaining participants and was unanimous (the idea was to deny them the fun of firing all those cats and deny them the city.)

* Arrian claws at his eyes and tears his hair out

Figuratively speaking, of course

CGN clearly didn't play to win. Ever. They may not realize that, but that's the truth. They consistently made decisions based on emotion over logic.

There is nothing wrong with that. It hurts us, yes, but there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

So let's vent here and then move on. We've a job to do.

-Arrian

	23-06-2004 00:28									#25
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Perhaps we need a new debate about our strategy?

Aidun

	23-06-2004 02:16									#26
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I respectfully request that the following comments not be relayed beyond this forum, but I have to ask this question:

Trip, what on God's green earth possessed you to join that team?

You better hope and pray that YOU have exclusive control over the Cataganian military if you ever get into a war in the C3C ISDG...

I suppose that's why you joined... you can be their sole voice of sanity when it comes to military affairs.

	23-06-2004 02:17									#27
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quote: Perhaps we need a new debate about our strategy?

Our Strategy:
Survive into the Modern Age.
Build the Manhattan Project.
Empty ten Tacticals into Remembrance.

	23-06-2004 05:38									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I respectfully request that the following comments not be relayed beyond this forum, but I have to ask this question: Trip, what on God's green earth possessed you to join that team? You better hope and pray that YOU have exclusive control over the Cataganian military if you ever get into a war in the C3C ISDG... I suppose that's why you joined... you can be their sole voice of sanity when it comes to military affairs.

I figured playing against Apolyton would be more of a challenge than playing with them. I enjoy a good challenge, not a cake-walk.

	23-06-2004 05:46									#29
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Sounds more like you enjoy torture, death and humiliation!

	23-06-2004 05:50									#30
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Well, we have the highest score in our game right now so boo ya. ;P