06-07-2004 15:16									#31
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Well I guess we are going to remain only 5. I and DD were hoping for more but I guess this will give us pleanty of time for next years get together. But there is still time if more want to come this year. 5 is a good start I think but more would be cooler!!

	09-07-2004 22:40									#32
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Ive got a newcomer to the game that I am trying to talk into playing - Ill keep you posted.

	17-07-2004 19:26									#33
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If we only have 5 people and plan to play 3 games each, one per day, we will have one person left out. I suggest one person volunteer to be the referee and supervise/moderate the games to try to make thing as evenly matched and fair as possible. You know, no one starting with extra technologies, no one starting in a vastly superior starting position, etc. I would be willing to do that - I think I'll still have some fun even though I wouldn't be playing. A 4 player tournament will take 3 days to play if you assume one game per day. The fifth person would throw that "perfect" fit off.

Of course, we could also take Joe's (Weldingrod's) suggestion and play a 5 way for 3 days on a big map.

Oh, by the way, I am willing to volunteer for the referee position if we decide to do that one. But I also like the 5 way idea.

	17-07-2004 22:34									#34
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if those are the 2 options - I would say lets play a 5 way game for 3 days - Id rather see everyone playing

	18-07-2004 04:27									#35
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Nice thought civ2 but playing a continued game for 3 days sounds great. I think we should be able to get a whole game in. The only problem I see with this idea is it will be either a close game or a runaway.

	18-07-2004 06:54									#36
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I also like the 5 player 3 day deal also. We can take breaks to eat and at night there may be something cool to do around the city. Detroit is a great town and the out of towners should get a chance to see it.

	26-07-2004 23:29									#37
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sounds like a blast... but too far and ive been all over the south the last couple months... im tired of traveling.
besides what would i do at a strip club
have fun

	29-07-2004 12:05									#38
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Hmmmmm, this could be fun, not sure I can work it out on this notice, but what the heck. Don't carve it in stone, but I'll see what I can do.

I do agree, however that with less than 8 a 3 day game sounds best, but then what do I know lol.

Bizzaro the bizzare

	30-07-2004 20:27									#39
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Where do you live man? And for sure show up....we are gonna have a great time!!

	31-07-2004 04:47									#40
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I currently reside in Flint, Mi. Dank.

Biz

p.s. Sounds like a blast, but it still requires moving some things around, if you know what I mean.

b

	01-08-2004 20:46									#41
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Flint!!...kick a** you are so close man......try to make it!

	02-08-2004 03:49									#42
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Too far away, and I was already in Michigan in January... not going back

	04-08-2004 01:00									#43
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Ok guys we are still only 5. Lets all try to convice bizzaro1 to join in our little get together. Remember we are going to try to do this every year so lets not be bummed out if we have only 6 of us. Still pretty good for just thinking of it only 2 months ago.

Also I have been talking to Eric (civ2guru) and I agree that a premade map may be better. Joe (weldingrod) has a great map editor that can make maps bigger then 100x100. I say let him make it and lets find another person to place our civs down to make it totally fair. I do know that some of you may not like this but Joe and Eric are very honest people that will NEVER! take advantage of other people in the game.

So share your thoughts not long now and we will be playing!!!!

	04-08-2004 03:30									#44
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A premade is fine by me. I trust Joe & Eric.

	04-08-2004 04:23									#45
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Well lets see how democratic we can be. Thats 3 for premade map.

	05-08-2004 01:03									#46
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I don't play on premade maps

	05-08-2004 01:15									#47
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Well let me expand on that answer a little bit.

First of all - I dont think we should make the map larger than 100x100 or even that large. We'll never finish in three days.

Second: I'm not really concerned and in fact don't want a perfectly even/fair start. I don't wanna know for example if I start with 2 resources and a river 4 squares away that everyone else does too. I prefer random over totally equal. Let's let everyone have the abilty to call for one restart if they get a bad start. That will still keep it random and unknown.

Third: I don't want anyone to take this wrong way, because I am not accusing anyone of cheating, But it is impossible to know the map ahead of time and act like you don't.

Thats like telling me the first 4 answers to a multiple choice test are C, B, D & A. And then telling me to take the test fairly. It is impossible. It doesn't mean I am a cheater it just means I have advance knowledge that I can't make disappear from my head.

Sorry guys: no pre-made maps for me. I have no interest in playing in that kind of game. If thats what u guys wanna do - have fun. I'll be there for the other activities but won't be playing.

	07-08-2004 01:58									#48
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Let's have deity dude make the pre-made map. If he is willing to do it...

	07-08-2004 02:01									#49
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Hey Bizzaro1, you should come and play with us... It would be a lot of fun to have another player.

	07-08-2004 02:24									#50
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A thought or two on pre-made maps: The purpose is not usually to have EXACTLY the same resources for each person - most of the time it is only to assure some sort of rough parity for people and to avoid some problems that can arise in random map games, like starting too close to another civ or getting trapped on a small peninsula behind someone else who has a nice advantage over you, or something like that. True, in some respects that is part of the game, but in some cases, when stuff like that happens someone has a lost game from the very start no matter what they do. If people are coming from another state to play, it would be nice if they could play a game that was not guaranteed to be a loss for them from very early on. It is a lot of time to invest in something in which you might not have much of a chance to do well at (even if you don't win).

It makes much less difference to us local guys who don't have to travel very far. I want the out of state guys, in particular, to fully enjoy the trip.

I think people will have more fun if everyone has a good shot at playing a competitive game. I personally enjoy it more when the people I am playing against all have a good shot at remaining competitive throughout the game, right up until near the end.

Uncertainty about the outcome for most of the game = More fun

Last edited by civ2guru on 07-08-2004 at 08:11

	07-08-2004 04:39									#51
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quote: Originally posted by civ2guru Let's have deity dude make the pre-made map. If he is willing to do it...

I have no interest in making a map or knowing the map ahead of time.

I still think letting payers ask for a restart will take care of any bad start problems and still keep the game random and the map unknown

	07-08-2004 07:29									#52
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Well i hope this can be resolved. I see DD view and understand where he is coming from. Although I'm driving 7 hours to get to the event it would be nice for everyone to play. I really do not have a clear solution because we cannot settle if we want a premade map OR ai's. I think DD is against both. I say he needs to compromise on one or the other and the rest of us can yeild to the other demand.

	07-08-2004 23:00									#53
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I vote for a premade map

	08-08-2004 00:12									#54
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Well, it looks like we have 4 votes for a pre-made map.

I wonder if there is anything we can "give" to Deity Dude - maybe to sweeten his starting spot so that he does not mind playing on a pre-made map. Maybe not. But it is a thought, any how.

Pre-mades have one disadvantage in that the maker knows them, but they have advantages that can really help make a game play better. I'm sure we'll have more discussion on what to do as time goes by.

	08-08-2004 02:12									#55
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LOL - I don't want to be "given" anything. That logic is one of the reasons I don't like premade maps. Everyone is "given" something. I want a random start where people explore and earn what they get.

Whats wrong with allowing each player a restart? That will take care of any bad start problems and still keep the game random and the map unknown.

As for AI's - again I'm not interested.

I play with a wide variety of players and I don't know anyone who plays with AI's. A few of the 2x2x kingers play with premades in duels but other than that I don't know of anyone who regularly plays on premade maps.

So I may be in the minority in this group but I think amongst most experienced players my views are more mainstream.

	08-08-2004 04:14									#56
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I have to agree with DD on this.....as an outsider looking in.

When i got together with berz, rah, ming, in Chicago last year...we played alot of different games, always using a random map.

i can see for ladder matches etc....how a premade map could be used ONCE if it were made by a trusted third party who had no interest in the outcome....

other than that, the best part of the game is exploring and making the most of what you have , and deciding whether or not you have to go to war , for what you dont' have

	10-08-2004 08:45									#57
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You guys should play on the Michigan map.

	10-08-2004 18:53									#58
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I would come but I've allready been to Detroit once this year. That reminds me, where were you at that night Dank???

Anyway, we met up with Strate and I'm happy to confim that Detroit realy has the nastiest city center I've seen

	12-08-2004 16:26									#59
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Well guys I've been away for a little while (don't ask!) But I'm starting to lean towards DD idea. Lets be honest with each other. Do we really plan on playing this anytime after this coming up weekend? We may say we are but come on guys we will never be around together to play it. And I do like the idea about everyone getting a restart if there land is crap or if they are right next to someone else.

So this is what I'm thinking about and I know some of you will agree to this.

Lets do a random map BUT lets throw in AI to balance it out. Now Eric and Jon before you guys complain look at the whole picture. DD DOES NOT want a premade map he is putting his foot down on that one and I will respect him for it for sure. And I think you guys really and should want to play him. We are all good players but we can always pick up something else from other good players . I don't want DD just to come to party and hang I want him to play the darn game also!!!

And Bizzro we would really love to have you play with us so come on!!

We have only 2 weeks now to iron out the details to the game. I'm sure a good compermise would be:

Random map-each player getting one restart before 3000bc for whatever reason: ie. bad start, to close to others, no resourses, ect.

Ai-to balance the game out to 7 players

Raging hoards

1x1x deity

peace only-no alliances

no unit trade

unit bribe ok-no city bribe

If I left anything out please tell me. I really want this to work guys and remember DD and I came up with whole idea to have a get together. So lets hear him out and let "US" comparmise (can't spell worth a darn) to his wishes. After all he is co-hosting this along with me.

I'm pretty sure that Joe will bend this way. Him and I have played on plenty of random maps in the past.

These are my thoughts lets get it together!!

Last edited by Dank on 13-08-2004 at 03:01

	13-08-2004 04:38									#60
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Dank....I except all the terms.