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bob rulz
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Okay, so, I'm playing a normal Civ 3 game, and I signed a MPP with Greece, forcing me to go to war with like 3 other people. Eventually, I got to the point where my treasury was suffering badly, and even thought they're gracious to me, there is absolutely nothing I can do to make them give me gold, and I don't want to get them mad (they're easily the most powerful in every way).
So, with these treasury problems, I decided to switch to Republic, thinking it would help me out with this. Being the religious civ that I was (Egypt), I only had to experience 1 turn of Anarchy. However, now I'm in a Republic, and I'm getting like +300 gold per turn, but all but about 6 of my cities are in war weariness. I've got no one to trade luxuries with (Greece is the only one I'm on good terms with and they've got no spare luxuries, and I'm very low on them).
So, my question is, is should I stay in Republic and sign peace, and risk losing the trust of my only ally (Greece?). It's really late in the game (like 2025), so I'm not sure if it will matter, but should I sign peace or switch to communism and risk suffering the same treasury problems? (like -200 per turn)
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KingJoff
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How long ago was the MPP signed? If it's still in the 20-year solid stage, then you're pretty much screwed; you'll be dragged back into the wars as soon as you make peace, so balancing luxury against WW or going Communist are your only options.
If your MPP is older than 20 turns, you can go to Greece, select current deals, and back out of the MPP, then make peace as you see fit, and Greece's trust in you shouldn't go down particularly. It's breaking Military Alliances to make peace that hurts you trust-wise.
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bob rulz
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"are in war weariness"
Oops, I kinda screwed up in those words...heh, I meant to say civil disorder, but you know what I meant...
Anyway, I'm positive it's still in the 20-year solid stage. So, practically, really my only choice is to go Communist?
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Drachen
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Hey Bob;
It's a bit late in the game so it would be helpful to know how you're trying to win the game as in Diplomatic, Spaceship, or what? If you don't have a chance of winning then I'd probably just play around with some restarts to see what the effect of various governments would be so you'll have a better idea of what to do in future games.
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bob rulz
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
If you make enough entertainers and used the lux slider, you should not be having problems with WW.
I have to wonder why you though a switch to Republic would be a good idea while at war? I know you needed money, but that can be raised with reduced research and or reduced unit counts.
Of course my real question would be why did you get into an MPP in the first place? I know you felt it was safer to be nice to the top dog, but really it looks like it was not all that profitable.
Anyway, since it is 2025, why sweat it? Do you have the highest score? A space launch coming? A UN vote? If none of these are in the cards, just abandon and accept the loss. Oh I left out culture.
Post a save. |
Almost every city had every citizen unhappy, therefore entertainers would be just as bad as civil disorder, and the luxury slider would have taxed my empire as bad as civil disorder. I was in a rush of research to try to finish the space race before Greece, so I couldn't reduce research. I was nowhere NEAR culturally powerful enough to do that, and Greece had both the highest score and the UN, the most culture, was the most technologically advanced, and had the largest military power. I accepted the loss eventually, but I just wanted to at least try to win. Well, it's too late to post the save...the game already ended anyway. I had already experimented witht the governments at the point of this saved game, and I figured that giving up one improvement per turn was better than having every city in civil disorder. The game ends one turn later after this save, but will you please give me strategies for future reference anyway? Or someone? I have it attached even though the game ends anyway, and I forgot to turn off preserve random seed. I believe it uses the latest original Civilization III patch. So, unfortunately, I don't believe that any of what you guys suggested would work. And yes, it's Warlord difficulty level, I'm still at that level. Oh yeah, and I wasn't even costing anything for unit support, or at least very little.
 Attachment: egypt.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
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I don't know how to break this to you, but something has gone terribly wrong in this game.
This is a Warlord game and you have a large amount of land, but are in terrible shape.
Only 2 wonders in year 2026? The last time I played out someones Monarch game, I build every wonder in the game, so surely 2 is not a robust effort. I can get 2 wonders in the ancient age at Sid most of the time.
I see a number of tiles not cleared of pollution in metros. This is painful as you will need all your squares to feed the city. It cost you shields and cash as well. You can't do it as you do not have any workers.
At this stage of a game, I would have 2 stack of 14-20 workers/slaves to clean pollution the turn it shows up.
If I am still expanding, another stack to build up any new city quickly.
You only have 9 workers?
No mass transits were built in the metros and you did not research recylcle by 2026?
Heliopols is starving while you have 6 scientist and two unworked irrigated railed tiles?
No police stations in metros? Metros should have all structures with ease.
My guess is that the down fall is the lack of mines. I did not look it over real close, but saw large tracts of land with rails and not a mine in sight.
Do you have factories and plants in all metros?
You skipped 5 techs in the middles ages and still did not keep pace in research, so I am sure the workers were not able to keep pace with growth.
I see 159 to other civs. I did not look at what the deals were, but in the main, you cannot profit by give large chunks of gold to the other guys.
It may come to pass that you need to buy a lux or a research at imes, but it should not be common thing. Do not buy tech from front runners, unless your existence depends on it.
My suggestion would be to start a new thread and post a new start. Play 40 turns and post that and lets see how is going on.
Plus I did not mention that you have almost no military. This will eventually force you into paying bribes and extortion.
So not much research, not much military, not a lot of infrasture, what happen to your production? What was it spent on?
Sorry to be so hard, but I figure you need to hear it.
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bob rulz
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I only have nine workers? I could've sworn I had more than that, and I didn't realize I had so many specialists either...I don't mind you being harsh, because I DO have to hear it. Of course, my lack of noticing this is probably one reason I didn't do well...
This is why I think they should rework the scoring system. My score (my best ever), is HIGHLY deceiving. Unless, of course, I'm doing better than the computers. After thinking back on it, that MPP did cost me big, but I had one problem.
Japan came up earlier and declared war on me for no reason while they had a ROP with Greece. They could have sent unit after unit after unit in on me and I wouldn't have been able to keep pace.
I don't know what my problem is in scientific research, but that has always been my low point. I really didn't start having htese significant problems until the big world war started. Just when I started getting mass transits Japan ivnaded me, which forced me to stop production and build my military.
I thought I had lots of mines? I thought I did a pretty good job of dealing with mine/irrigation ratio. I think my concentration might lapse a little in the early game though. Also, one reason I got off to a slow start was because, when the game started, my peninsula was cut off with large tracts of jungle, so I had to put significant worker effort into clearing this. Unfortunately, I don't have any earlier saved games...I should start doing that.
No police stations...well, I didn't get communism until maybe 20 turns ago, and I had to focus on building my military and SS components. I didn't really think about it...another fault of mine.
Yes, I have factories and plants in almost all metros. Also, if you look at the location of the forbidden palace and wonder about that, I got it LONG before I conquered Rome (to the northeast), and I needed it sorely at the time.
I ruined my rep in the early game by breaking a ROP and a military alliance, therefore hurting my tech-obtaining abilities. I should really stop doing that...I have no military because 1-I've exhausted it in the latest war (I've had ridiculously bad luck with stuff like that in this game), and also when I conquered Rome, 2-at one point I DID have exorbitant military costs, so I was forced to disband a number of units, and during the time of peace I was focusing on getting my infrastructure built. I didn't have a problem with the pollution until recently either. My cities simply grew too much and didn't have enough production to get pollution minimizing things quickly.
I didn't get many wonders because I needed my production on more important things earlier. Both of the wonders I got were conquered from other people (look at the cities they're in). Wonder building is simply not something I'm good at, and I usually need to focus on more important things. Yes, wonders are important, but they take too long to build until industrial age, when everyone's usually way ahead of me anyway (I need to fix that too).
Well, I'll look over my game and see what I've done wrong. However, don't expect any feedback form me soon, I will be on vacation for 2 and a half days. I am going to finish this up, pack, go to bed, get up, and leave, so...don't expect immediate responses on my part.
Sorry...hope to see lots of feedback in 2 and a half days time.
For a while
Later all.
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
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Originally posted by bob rulz
"Japan came up earlier and declared war on me for no reason while they had a ROP with Greece. They could have sent unit after unit after unit in on me and I wouldn't have been able to keep pace."
It was not for no reason, it was because it could. If you are looking at the military advisor and seeing you are weak compared to them, you can expect extortion and wars.
"I don't know what my problem is in scientific research, but that has always been my low point. I really didn't start having htese significant problems until the big world war started. Just when I started getting mass transits Japan ivnaded me, which forced me to stop production and build my military."
You should be able to out research the AI at warlord, if you cannot, then the empire was not set up properly. If you are getting all tiles worked improved as they are worked, you should be able to pull away.
"No police stations...well, I didn't get communism until maybe 20 turns ago, and I had to focus on building my military and SS components. I didn't really think about it...another fault of mine."
It was too late to make any space parts, so that was a waste of time. At 2000AD you should have some cities making about 80 to 100 shields, this would let you dop a police station in a hurry. I only said metros, cities with more than 12 pop.
"I ruined my rep in the early game by breaking a ROP and a military alliance, therefore hurting my tech-obtaining abilities. I should really stop doing that...I have no military because 1-I've exhausted it in the latest war (I've had ridiculously bad luck with stuff like that in this game), and also when I conquered Rome, 2-at one point I DID have exorbitant military costs, so I was forced to disband a number of units, and during the time of peace I was focusing on getting my infrastructure built. I didn't have a problem with the pollution until recently either. My cities simply grew too much and didn't have enough production to get pollution minimizing things quickly."
You can deal with the rep or not, it is a matter of preference IMO. I would not break RoP's because I would not make them, except in the rarest of cases.
You just cannot afford to not keep strong in military, as you have seen they will make you pay one way or another.
The cost was probably impacting you because your empire was not producing as much as it should. Look at the 159 you are sending out, if that was spend on 159 units, you could have taken what you wanted.
"I didn't get many wonders because I needed my production on more important things earlier. Both of the wonders I got were conquered from other people (look at the cities they're in). Wonder building is simply not something I'm good at, and I usually need to focus on more important things. Yes, wonders are important, but they take too long to build until industrial age, when everyone's usually way ahead of me anyway (I need to fix that too)."
This what is going to happen if you do not build your empire into a production machine. My point was not that wonders are needed, but that at Warlord you must be making the lions share or you are going to be in a big hole. Not because you need them, but because it shows a problem with your empire.
A well planned empire with the size of the land you have should be leading in all categories and making the break through in techs and popping out wonders to fast for the AI.
The fact that you are not is the reason I suspect the industrialness of your empire is way below par.
Have fun on the vacation.
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bob rulz
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Okay, got back from my trip a day early. We went camping and got rained out.
Anyway, I'm looking at that now...I didn't even know it was possible. The manual specifically states that you can't even mine a flood plain, that the option isn't even available. I would never mine a flood plain even if it was possible, unless 1-I thought it was a desert or 2-I was high.
And yes, it's normal Civ 3, I mentioned that before, and I also mentioned that I lose on the next turn. I just wanted a few tips so I can learn. As you can probably tell I'm still new to the game.
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bob rulz
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So, can anyone give me a few more tips on how to keep this from happening in future games?
...and was I doing good in anything at this point? I can guarentee you I didn't have most these problems until I went to war...and yes, I'm looking at it again and the MPP didn't help at all.
And conquered Rome was to the northwest, not the northeast...
Seriously though, even at Warlord I can't out-research the AI. I'm getting as many tiles as I can improved, and I pay attention to exactly what I'm improving too, except for, obviously, that mined flood plain (still wondering about that).
EDIT: The mined flood plain was apparently a bug, because I loaded the saved game again and moved around my workers to the flood plains squares, and the mine option didn't even appear.
Last edited by bob rulz on 27-06-2004 at 05:31
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
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bob ruls, I don't have it in front of me now, so I can't repsond to what was going well. I would say that it is hard to know so late in the game as many things were done and then undone by now.
The best way is to start a new game the way you normaly would play it, same settings and such.
Post the 4000bc start and then the 2190bc. The we can see how is going right and or wrong. If it looks great, go on to the next block.
This way if something is poping out, it can be corrected. If everything is good until some point down the road, such as middle age wars, then it will be seen coming.
IOW, if you are doing the expected things in building and it is just circumstances.
I am going to say at this point, I am certain that we will see issues that are not related to wars.
You did have a less than wonderful start location, but lots of people love flooded plains. Anyway, it is all speculation at this point. After some 500+ turns, it is just too late to know.
I am sorry I did not recall or failed to notice it was a civ3, but with so many threads, it some times runs together.
So if you would like to take the time to try some runs, I will be happy to see if I can contribute anything.
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bob rulz
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Thanks vmxa1, any help would be appreciated. Should I post them in this thread?
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bob rulz
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Okay, I took the screenshot, but I don't see the screenshot in the Civilization III file. Where do I access my screenshots?
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bob rulz
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I need a step-by-step overview of how to do this. I am not very computer literate.
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
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BTW just my .02 on Civs and Cleo, I would not pick them to use.
My reason is that at the lowest levels, you will be making lots of wonders and will trigger a very early GA.
I don't like their UU either, to weak.
When you start to move up to Emp or better, then you can control the wonder events, to prevent an early trigger, but it will be hard to use the UU to do it.
I have screwed up a few times at sid and even once at Demi by building the wonder trigger very early with some civs. Especially if I do not use them much and forget that maybe just the one wonder will do it.
I am not saying you can't win with them, you can, but if you are having some trouble doing it, why not use a stronger civ?
I am not fond of religious and would rather have Ag or Com or even Industrial.
At the lower levels a good Middle age UU is handy. I like an ancient one at higher levels as I will need it to beat down barbs and other invaders.
Something like MW are early and fast movers and can get out an get those super barbs you see on the highest levels.
At warlord, your warriors can handle barbs, certainly archers.
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
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I seem to be too tired as I some how got this posted three times and cannot delete it, sorry.
Last edited by vmxa1 on 27-06-2004 at 10:46
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