23-06-2004 04:19									#1
	Acts of Fate - New Ideas Workshop Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

post 'em here if you've got 'em! Whether that be ideas for improving existing ones, or outright new ones!

-=Vel=-

	24-06-2004 11:59									#2
	Tired of ads?

Oooohh. Neato. Lots of new-looking stuff and threads.

Which I'll have to copy and read at a later point when I get sufficient leisure time. As usual.

First thought - Please please please implement some sort of probability curve for some of these things. (A request brought on by instances of "Unhappiness among the clergy" and "Non-enforcement of the Ordinances" events, each hitting me several times within a couple of decades. ).

Mmm ... Discovery-related events perhaps?

Anything from an underground well able to be tapped to increase an areas fertility to the standard gold/precious mineral deposit giving a flat-out cash increase.
Even better I'd prefer to see choices in some events regarding their exploitation - quick gains for little cost as opposed to an extended investment giving far larger returns in the long run?
- Slaughter the newly discovered herd in time of need for a quick-fix as opposed to raising them as herd animals in a controlled fashion for many years?

Generalising even more, perhaps an investment in a dedicated "explorer-corps" could increase a faction's probability of future discoveries - introduce extended, linked events?

Similarly perhaps for a few other events - Devoting more resources to fighting a plague might give you a bonus to avoiding future plagues, or even a cure that could possibly be traded with another faction in the future if they happen across the same.


Incidentally, if you're going to include any "border dispute"-related events it might be nice to impose the conditional that the parties do actually have a border to dispute?
ie: Impose conditionals upon events triggering.

More later.

	25-06-2004 00:06									#3
	Tired of ads?

Vel, you gotta know that asking for suggestions means you'll get deluged. And kudos for keeping such an open game design process. Here are a few random suggestions from me -- very crude and probably needs polishing if they fit in at all. Please realize that the numerical figures are estimates since I don't know what is considered a lot or very little mana/influence/etc. without having played the game first.


Name: Demonic Rift
Category: Magical

Effect: Reckless magical dabbling has resulted in an accident ripping the fabric of reality. The wizards warn that a dimensional rift has opened and hordes of demons have invaded the neutral province provname$. The only way to seal the breach is by killing the demonlord. The wizards beseech your aid. A demon lord and 10 lesser demons appear in a random neutral province. Demon lord may not move from this province. Each turn, 5 new lesser demons appear in this province until demon lord is killed. Lesser demons will attack adjacent provinces. Until demon lord is killed, any province that is controlled by at least one lesser demon (other than original province) will gain 2 lesser demons each turn. As long as Demon lord is alive, any building in any demon occupied province has a 30% chance of being destroyed, and the population decreases.

Other instructions: This card resolves the turn it appears. This fate card will only appear if 50% of the provinces in Candle'bre have magical builds. Killing demon lord will trigger the Demon Summoning fate card. As long as Demon lord is alive, you may not win the game.


Name: Summoner's Tower(This is a spawned event that will only come into play when Demon lord is killed and you conquer that demon lord's province)
Category: Triggered event

Effect: Having learned from their mistakes, the wizards believe that the accident that devastated provname$ can be turned to advantage. They believe that with your patronage, they can erect a summoner's tower on the location of the rift and control the demons that they summon.

„hConstruct a Summoner's Tower in the devastated province of provname$. -100 gold and -200 mana. As long as Summoner's Tower exists, you may summon lesser demons for X initial mana cost and Y mana upkeep per turn.

„hNot at this time. (Card returns to your book of fate and may be activated later.)

„hHaven't you learned your lesson? We will never dabble in demonic conjuration again! Gain X honor. (Removes this Act of Fate from your library)


I've got some thoughts for a church counterpart to this (a crusade that will only happen if 50% of the provinces in candle'bre have religious builds), but I'll wait until you get a chance to describe your religions stuffs first, Vel.

	25-06-2004 02:59									#4
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Thank ya, Rav and AG! LOVE the ideas!

And yep, there's plenty of room for stuffage like that....thing I like about the "rift" is that it's a totally divergent plotline....and very typical of the wizards, too! While everybody else is off fighting, they go dabble in their own stuff, and then....hey! Maybe we can find a way to make this work for us....THAT's good stuff!

Kudos to Rav re: the Exploration Corps, too! 'spect to see something very like both!

-=Vel=-

	27-06-2004 19:10									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It's basically my way of incorporating the QUEST concept I described in the Random Thoughts thread via the use of fate cards. I'm glad you liked it. I wanted the rewards to match the level of difficulty of defeating the demon lord.

Thus, for a magic heavy player, there's a new option of summoning demons. For nonmagical players, there's the significant honor bonus reward that matches the value of willingly giving up a new gameplay option (since nonmagic heavy users would be ill-suited to gain much from demon summoning when they don't have the necessary mana anyway). And for the nonmagical, pariah players, they can choose just to keep it in their library, they're not forced to shell out mana for a gameplay option they can't afford, nor forced to accept honor when they need to lower their honor to pariah status to use nefarious options.

For the last group, they gain the use of the province -- which should now have the new property of doubled mana production for the rest of the game, reflecting the residual power of the rift. And perhaps loyalty bonuses to reflect a population grateful for salvation.

The demons should be properly horrifying KICKASS units, and the demon lord should be REALLY KICKASS. It should require several normal units to take down one demon. The key is to make the player really scared and go OMG "how the blazes am I gonna stand up to THAT!" so as to approximate the horror that a medieval person would have to demons invading their realm

In order to prevent such powerful units from unbalancing the game when the player is able to summon them, special drawbacks could be used that would only apply to player summoned-lesser demons, but not demonlord-summoned lesser demons.

For instance, we can make the upkeep cummulative. This concept is seen in certain Magic:The Gathering cards, but I've not seen it implemented in TBS games. Thus, since demons can only be summoned by the player at the province with containing the Summoner's Tower, the further you move the lesser demon away from this province, the more expensive it gets to upkeep it since the upkeep for a given unit increases with time. These units are still useful, especially in the regioins close to the Summoner's Tower, but they wouldn't become an overwhelming force that you can conquer the rest of the world with, unless you're willing to pay an exorbitant upkeep price in Mana. And the ability to leverage demons would scale with investment in mana.

Also, we can also add a trigger in demon dissipation. Obviously, one tactic is to unsummon a demon when the upkeep gets expensive, and just summon a new one which would start out a lower upkeep. If the demon is unsummoned/dismissed/dissipated in the province containing the Summoner's Tower and the rift, then there are no ill effects -- the demon is sent back through the rift. But if you choose to unsummon the demon in any other province (because you either can't or don't wish to continue paying the cumulative upkeep) we can tack on a 10% chance of a building in that province being destroyed by unstable energy and a 3% chance of triggering REVULSION OF THE MASSES. You can choose to be reckless with demons, but it comes with risk and a price


Name: Revulsion of the Masses
Category: Magical, triggered event

Effect: The peasantry are protesting your blasphemous dealings with demons.

-- Quell the riots with force. Superstitious fears of demons have no place in affairs of the crown. (-5 honor, major loyalty penalties, increased risk of rebellion for next 10 turns)*

-- Appease the peasants with gifts. (-gold)

-- Submit to demands of the people. (All lesser demons under your control are dismissed. These dismissals do not trigger the 3% check for this card being triggered. In each province that a demon is dismissed, loyalty rises reflecting the people's trust in your wisdom.)*

-- Strike a deal with the Church to pacify the superstitious peasantry. (Demolish Summoner's Tower, gain influence, lose mana. You may keep any demons you currently control, but may no longer summon new ones.)

Other Instructions: This Fate Card can occur over and over again, but only through the trigger of dismissing a demon in a province without the Summoner's Tower. 3% noncumulative chance each time.

*Each instance of these first 2 choices being selected increments the possibility of UNDERGROUND INSURGENCY by 3%.



Name: Underground Insurgency
Category: Provincial

Effect: An underground network of people disgusted with your blasphemous dealings with demons has formed throughout your kingdom. Increased risk of revolt kingdom wide for the next 10 turns, double this risk at each province containing a demon, loyalty caps decreased by 5% permanently kingdom-wide.

Other Instructions: This fate card can only be activated if one of the first two choices in REVULSION OF THE MASSES is chosen. The potential of this fate card occuring increases by 3% each time one of these 2 choices is selected by the player.


These events will probably need a lot of polishing and tinkering with numbers and effects to get the play balance right.

Last edited by ApolytonGuest on 27-06-2004 at 19:59

	27-06-2004 19:24									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Actually, Underground Insurgency might not be necessary. We can use one of the existing negative provincial fate cards that you've already detailed (like STIRRING UP DISSIDENTS or one of the others) and simply apply the same concept of incrementing the chance of those negative things happening if you choose one of the two top choices. But I do like the title UNDERGROUND INSURGENCY. Maybe we just need to tweak it to make the effects, plotline and play value sufficiently distinct.

Edit to add: Here's a good quote for flavor text for one of the latter events...
"There are only three types of people who would consort with demons -- the arrogant, the ignorant, or the desperate. The world has too many of each." I imagine the flavor text for the orginal rift event could be a horrifying first hand account of what happened.

Last edited by ApolytonGuest on 27-06-2004 at 19:44

	28-06-2004 06:06									#7
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Love it! And still tweaking the last of the religious events, but they'll be up soon!

-=Vel=-

	14-07-2004 14:09									#8
	Put an end to popups!

For the Underground Insurgency, perhaps there can be an espionage counter. So instead of the effect lasting for 10 turns, it will last until the player spends enough espionage points to reduce the counter to zero, indicating a diversion of intelligence gathering resources to rooting out the insurgents.


The Purging of the Smacalien
Category: Religious, World Event

Over the decades, refugees from the land of Smacali have been trickling into Candle'Bre as their homeland is periodically razed and plundered by the Nilroggi. The Smacalien are now an ethnic minority in the kingdom and have integrated into society, but refuse to abandon their folkish ways and submit to the beliefs of the Church. They believe that the Divine exists in everything and practice a crude form of shamanistic animism, refusing to believe in the anthropomophism of gods as represented in the pantheon of Candle'Bre. The Church has now declared the Smacalien to be heretics and initiated a religious pogrom -- Smacalien must convert or die.

--Support the Church's pogrom. The unbelievers will believe, even if it must be at swordspoint. (Construction points and Gold production rates in provinces drop as the purging of hapless Smacalien citizens causes chaos to local businesses. Population throughout your provinces drop. You may not hire Smacalien Shaman. Each Smacalien Shaman that you kill in battle grants you 10 influence. Increased Influence production rates for the rest of the game.)

--Do nothing to hinder or support the pogrom. (Lose half your Influence stockpile. All options that require Influence now see their Influence costs doubled. You now gain the option on your mercenary hiring selection of hiring Smacalien Shaman units. Smacalien Shaman units carry a per turn upkeep cost paid in Influence.)

--Defy the Church and defend the right of the Smacalien to live in Candle'bre. (Construction points and Gold production rates increase in your provinces as the Smacalien flee to your provinces for protection from the pogrom. Lose all your stored influence. All options that require Influence now see their Influence costs quadrupled. You now gain the option of hiring Smacalien Shaman units from your mercenary hiring selection. For you, Smacalien Shaman units do NOT carry a per turn upkeep cost in Influence.)

Other Instructions: This Fate Card may not appear unless 50% of the provinces in Candle'bre contain religious builds. A mark of Ollux is placed on anyone who chooses the latter two options. This event spawns for every other player on the same turn after it spawns for you.

Flavor Text: "Our job is to bring light to the darkness, enlightenment to the benighted, vision to the blind, and death to the unbelieving. How were we to know that these lesser beings who till our earth and labor in our stores day after docile day would prove to be fierce fighters with their heathen trickery? Whatever gods power their spells and prayers are surely demons from the dark abyss. To think that that we let such monsters live amongst us, hiding their sins in their hearts!" -- Anonymous Bishop, "Confessions of Sin"



I wanted to include honor in the mix somehow, but I wasn't sure whether it was more "honorable" to obey the religious rulings of the church and show one's piety, or to stand up for the persecuted and disobey a directive from the church and shelter heretics, in the context of Candle'bre society. So I left the options honor neutral -- feel free to change that if you wish.

Basically, this is a way to introduce mercenary magician-priests. And the name for the people from the land of Smacali should ring a bell And perhaps if you ever do an expansion pack that reaches outside the basin, you can explore the kingdom of Smacali and other societies who have fallen prey to the ravaging hordes of the Nilroggi nomadic raiders. Once again, the caveat that this event like any others that I propose will likely need lots of polishing and tinkering to get the balance right.

Maybe it should be spelled Smacalia and Smacalians instead of Smacali/Smacaliens to make it less obvious. Or you could throw in random apostrophes and make it Sma'Calia, S'Macalie, etc. But Smac'Alien would be too obvious.

Last edited by ApolytonGuest on 14-07-2004 at 14:20

	16-07-2004 02:30									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Also, this hasn't been discussed in depth yet, but what are the current intentions for the fate card editing engine? Will it allow for linked events? How robust is it? Will it allow placement of new units or complex rules? Or does it simply allow modification of cookie-cutter consequences like gifting gold, decreasing influence generation for the next 10 turns, etc.?

	16-07-2004 02:52									#10
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Good stuff here! As to the comments on the editor, I'll save that one for Dale, as I'm not sure what all's "in" and not.

-=Vel=-

	29-08-2004 09:10									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Request for assistance:

I know it's been a while since I was able to post an update to the Fate thread, and my apologies for that.

Real life intruded in a couple of different ways, first, new job, so Vel is no longer under-employed....and that carried with it the whole task of learning the ropes OF said new job.

Second, some 'puter problems at home have sorely limited my 'net access, and I've been reduced to sneaking on mostly at work, in between learning new stuffs. :: sheepish grin::

However, slow, steady progress is being made, and I'm putting the wraps on several new sections, to be posted when I've got them all done.

To date, I've fleshed out the Espionage specific triggered events, the Diplomatic ones, the ones for the Holy Prelature, and most of the ones for Honor and Infamy, however, some of MY events for those last two categories, I'm not 100% pleased with, and so, wanted to shop around for ideas from you guys, who have displayed enormous creativity in coming up with events so far.

To that end, I'll post the titles and categories only, and see what you come up with....

Honorable Events:
These occur only for honorable players, and can have other pre-requisites as dictated by the events themselves.

Righteousness
and
The Covenant (to be an event linked with the event above)

Order of the Sacred Heart
and
Resolute (to be linked with the event above)

Infamous Events:
These occur only for infamous players, and can have other pre-requisites as dictated by the events themselves.

Reign of Terror

Malicious Intent

(both of these events are standalones, and not linked to each other)

-=Vel=-
(off to go work on the Provincial Triggered series)

	29-08-2004 09:45									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

In all, I am less than thirty events from being finished fleshing out the basic list.

Once that is done, I'll begin combing through the list and either chop off the "dead wood" (cos I overspent my slots slightly and need to trim some fat), or strengthen selected events to make them more robust.

The LAST THING I want is to have a "ho-hum" event anywhere in the system. If it's weak, it either gets boosted to significance or cut out.

A couple passes through that, and I should have the standard events pretty well nailed down, and then, it's off to have a look at the historical ones, to make sure they're ready, and we'll finally have this part put to bed!

-=Vel=-

	29-08-2004 22:05									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

In a flurry of creative activity, I've now sketched out effects for all but 19 events (actually all but 13, but if you add in the six above that I've requested assistance with, then it's 19).

Will try to get the last of these sketched out this evening after the dinner party, and then set about doing the writing that surrounds the raw effects, getting them into the standard format I've been using in the event lists so far, so expect to see the completed event list soon.

One thing we'll do at that point (and this is where I'll be asking for a bunch more of your assistance) is to evaluate the events listed.

If some of them just plain suck, we'll cull them out to create new slots.

If some are interesting but weak, we'll expand on them to make them more powerful/interesting.

When we GET some additional slots opened up, we'll see where and how we can best fit some of the events that have been proposed here into the event list.

Now that I'm closer to having a finalized list, I have a better grasp on the numbers, and they'll shake out like this:

I want the basic game event list to be 350 events large, and I'm creating family events and other involved story chains with ~70 event slots in addition to that. (each faction will have ~12 events that relate specifically to them, and the Nilroggi Event Cycle will be approximately that same size) - these events will only occur if a "Historic Game" is being played. Otherwise, the event list will be exactly what's in the process of being posted in "The Acts of Fate" thread.

More to come!

-=Vel=-

	29-08-2004 22:55									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Because we have a few event slots open, and because there has been an expressed interest in more linked events with complex choices, one tangible way to assist me in bringing the list to closure, would be to examine the events currently listed, and think up some proposals for linked events to go along with them.

Also, as you review the list, look for weak links in the chain, because as we refine this list, we'll eliminate a few to make room for additional events, linked or no.

EDIT: Just noticed something else, and I'd ask that anyone following the events closely to have a look at this too....keep an eye out for logical or story holes in the events. One that I just stumbled across is a leadership event that references the "Black Sword of Zeal" being in play...and yet, there is no event to bring said blade into play...a hole that needs to be filled...stuff like that!

-=Vel=-

	30-08-2004 07:35									#15
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Twenty-One new events posted....rounding out the Diplomatic series of triggered events.

More to come!

-=Vel=-

	31-08-2004 15:28									#16
	Remove this text

Twenty new events posted. The SpyMaster series is now up for review!

Next up: Holy Prelature....twenty-five in the set.

-=Vel=-

	01-09-2004 01:32									#17
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In creating the Nilroggi Event Cycle (which is far and away, the most intricate event series in the game), I discovered a need for a new category of events...."World History" - not only does this event category provide compelling and game-relevant content, but it also helps to fill in the backstory a bit further, and IMO, really makes the Kingdom come alive.

I'll not be posting the particulars of the World History events here, because I think that those in particular would be better experienced in-game than just as cold words on the page, but to give you an idea of what kinds of things to expect, here's a partial listing, and one to serve as an example:

World History Events
The Basin's Aquifer
Folk of the Fringe (Attitudes and Cultures in Candle'Bre)
The Rise of Magic
Discreditation of the Magi
Origins of the Mercenary Code

And to give you a living, breathing sample:

Name: Origins of the Mercenary Code
Triggering: This event appears upon reaching Military 2. The turn after this tech is researched, the event will appear.

Effects:
Much has been written about Candle’Bre’s famed Mercenary companies, but few know the true origins of the Code that guides them and their actions. As your military prowess continues to grow, and your focus on Military traditions increases, it is time that this piece of history is made known to you.

During the time of the First King, and after the Foul Resurgence, there was a time of peace as villages and townships were formed, built by the sweat of the refugees who turned their attention toward taming the new land that was now their home.

The tiny Kingdom had no standing army, and it fell to each village to defend itself, so bands of volunteers formed in every town and noteworthy village, each calling themselves by a different name.

To stay in practice, in case the Nilroggi reappeared, these volunteer bands would host mock tournaments with one another, where style and personal prowess in duals won prizes over strategy, tactics, formation, and discipline.

In time, as the Kingdom grew and prospered, these volunteer bands were displaced by the House Guard system, whereby each petty Noble was charged with maintaining order and defense in his or her district, and as the King developed his own standing force to augment this, the Volunteers were no longer needed.

In an attempt to remove a potential threat, the Nobility of those early days petitioned the First King and sought to have the Volunteers outlawed, but the Council of Seven recognized that in the Volunteers, a common man maintained the right to keep and bear arms without being formally sworn to the defense of the Crown, and argued that there was vast political danger in removing this right from the People, who had so ably and willingly defended the Kingdom even before a proper standing force could be raised.

The Councilmen argued well, and the First King was swayed by their words, and the People were allowed their Volunteers. It was the only time the edict that allowed their formation and existence was ever challenged.

And as the Kingdom grew stronger and spread out, the Nobility found uses for them, hiring out bands of Volunteers to augment their own forces as they skirmished with one another. As time passed, some Volunteer bands gained notoriety in this manner, and from this, the Mercenary Bands as we know them today, were formed.

They still cling to their origins; style and personal prowess in battle count for more than rigid tactics, and any man may join their ranks. It matters not from whence you come, or your station at birth, or even if you come without a weapon. One will be provided you as you sell your services, and not your blade.

Thus, unlike the Mercenaries of other cultures (and from what little information we have on the matter, it appears that most Mercenaries were reviled by those who hired them, and treated with little regard), the Mercenaries of Candle’Bre are honored and respected members of the community, and much-cherished by the common folk of Candle’Bre.. What few outlaw bands have formed up over the years have generally been hunted down by other Mercenary groups, who have a keen interest in keeping their reputation spotless.

It should be noted, however, that despite the fact that the commoners dearly love “their” soldiery, the Nobles are somewhat less fond, and from time to time, skirmishes have been known to break out between the hired help and the King’s Regulars.

These incidents are, by and large, overlooked, as the Mercenaries provide an invaluable service to the Crown, shoring up armies and relieving the Nobility of the need to maintain larger standing forces.

(If any mercenary units you control participate in a battle between now and the start of your next turn, they gain +1 on their A/D values)

Other Instructions: Event resolves when received.
Flavor Text: Request for spiffy texts!

-=Vel=-

Last edited by Velociryx on 01-09-2004 at 18:57

	02-09-2004 00:39									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, here's an idea...usually caveats...rough and will probably require tinkering to get the balance, numbers, and gameplay right...no idea how it stacks up to your current ideas or whether it fits in. (It might well be worse than what you already have penciled in for this slot )


Name: Reign of Terror

Triggering event: Card appears the first time a player reaches a specific minimum Infamy threshold value

Effects: As long as Reign of Terror is in effect, you may slaughter your own citizens and confiscate their possessions for profit. You get 500 gold for each population unit you choose to slaughter. You may not slaughter more than 1 population unit per province per turn.

Population growth throughout your kingdom set to ZERO for as long as Reign of Terror is in effect.

For every five turns that Reign of Terror is in effect, all your provinces permanently lose -2CP each and gold revenue is reduced by 50% of whatever its value is at that time.

For every ten turns that Reign of Terror is in effect, you gain 5 Infamy (-5 honor).

Other Instructions: You may hold this card in your Book of Fate and initiate it at any time. Reign of Terror starts at the beginning of the turn after you choose to initiate it. It ends at the beginning of the turn after you choose to end it. You must have a minimum of X Infamy in order to be able to activate Reign of Terror. If at any time your Infamy fails to meet this threshold after you have chosen to begin your Reign of Terror, it will automatically end on the beginning of the next turn. After ending, Reign of Terror is removed from your library.

Flavor text: Your people may serve you out of loyal adoration, but mine will serve me ten times as a devotedly out of fear. Fear that they will fail me, fear that they will die, fear that they will be tortured. But most of all, they fear that they will go home and find their houses empty and ransacked, their spouses and children stolen from their beds, slaughtered upon their steps.

Your subject may love you, fight for you, kill for you, perhaps even step before an assassin's blade and die for you. But MY subject will go to the metalsmith, purchase a blade, hone it, and plunge it into his own chest just so that I would allow his family to live. Which amongst us is the more powerful lord?

You will pay me the tribute I demand, but double what we agreed on. And throw in that farmstead you stole from me. Or you will find that my empire of fear can reach deep into your court. Your soldiers know they can fail in battle and retreat home. Mine would rather die than fail and return home to find their families executed.
-- Letter from the selfstyled "Bandit King" [insert historic name] to a rival lord


The dynamic here is embarking on a self-destructive path for short-term gain. Trading long-term potential for immediate advantage. Sure, you end up with a weaker empire after your reign of terror (you killed off your citizens! And pop growth freezes during the reign, permanent loss of CP), but that won't matter if you can parlay the gold influx to hire mercenaries and conquer your enemies and expand your power. The question is can you expand your power fast enough to outpace the self-inflicted destruction of your kingdom?

And the concept of killing your own citizens (eating your seedcorn) for immediate profit and a short-term power boost is downright evil And surely fits the Infamy, "reign of terror" description.

	02-09-2004 00:54									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's IN! I love it!

That's just pure evil! Whooohooo!!!!

GREAT dynamic, too!

-=Vel=-

	02-09-2004 18:02									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ag, since you were the first person to post here, I got a mission for you, if you choose to accept it.

Of the events currently posted....give them a looking over, and make me a list of those that you feel are lame, weak, silly, or awkward. I'm planning on using this upcoming long weekend for a MAJOR push where the events are concerned. Three days off, no plans, girlfriend out of state visiting friends....time to create! Should be able to post the semi-final list of the basic events by this weekend, and then start culling the weak members of the herd out...

-=Vel=-

	03-09-2004 01:29									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Note for the curious:

You can see, by looking at Hex's *awesome* eye candy threads, the titles of some of the "World History" events. Now...my opinion is that these events will have much greater impact if they're not posted publically, but to give you a full accounting of the titles OF those events, here's what we got so far:

World History Event List
* The Basin's Aquifer
* Folk of the Fringe
* The Line of Kings
* The Witching Way
* Discreditation of the Magi
* Origins of the Mercenary Code
* MistMoon Warriors
* The Hidden Library of Thunder Hill
* The Tragic History of Widow's Way

at least three more events are planned for this category....more on these later (they've not been written yet!)

-=Vel=-

	03-09-2004 07:40									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm tempted to ask for a seat on the team and access to the top secret forums

First of all, I'm only offering my analysis of things from what I can see, and there's lots about this game's development that I don't see, so take this for what it's worth.

Now, as to the events you have listed, I see them as falling into a few distinct gameplay categories (different from the topical/contextual categories you've assigned to them). And I think any comprehensive engine may need to be designed to recognize the distinction in gameplay functions, and possibly evaluate the probabilities of each event popping up differently depending on what gameplay category they fall into.

EQUALIZERS

The first category are what I call "equalizers." Their purpose is to level the playing field a bit by giving a boost to players in last place or making things more difficult for players in first place. I'm not sure if these events are currently treated as such or assigned this specific purpose -- though there are indications you have this in mind for them -- but they should certainly be handled by the game engine in this manner. Equalizers are events with unqualified good or bad effects, e.g. a one-time bonus/loss of gold, abitrary loss or gain of mana production for the next ten turns, population boom, etc.

Some may view equalizers as not being "fair" because they punish people in first place or reward people in last. But this dynamic is an important gameplay element because it keeps the game competitive instead of boring because you're behind and have no hope of winning, or conversely ahead and boring because no one can catch up to you.

I believe two adjustments may need to be made to these events.

Adjustment One: Explicit targeting, probability scaling

One is that they be focused more explicitly on their role as equalizers. The "good effect" equalizers will only happen to players in the lower half or lower third of the power chart, the "bad effect" ones will only happen to the ones in the leading half/third of the power chart. And the probability of it happening should also scale with the relevant position of a player inside this subranking. Thus, a gift of gold can happen to someone in last place, or second to last, but not in first place -- BUT it is slightly more likely to happen to someone in last place rather than second to last, and more likely to happen to 2nd to last than 3rd to last, etc.

Adjustment Two: Sprucing up hum-drum effects

The second adjustment (which is not one of game balance like the first proposed adjustment, but more one of gameplay/style interest) is that an abitrary gift/loss of gold is not too interesting. Tactically speaking, the key to keeping a player's interest is presenting him with interesting choices. Failing that, the interest of a player can be maintained if the arbitrary non-choice development is of sufficiently interesting consequence.

--Change single effects into choosing between two bad choices or two good choices

Thus, in the case of gifting gold, a choice can be presented to a player of either taking one lump sum of 50 gold, or an extra 10 gold for the next six turns. The long term reward gives greater gold, but the lump sum means you can put the gold to use immediately, capitalizing on time. Alternatively, the choice may be to take 100 gold or double tax revenue for the next 10 turns, where the balance of which choice is "better" is context sensitive and depends on your circumstances. Note, that in all these cases, the element of an unqualified bonus/penalty remains true. There are no drawbacks to the boons, and no advantages to the penalties of losing gold, thus satisfying the "equalizer" role.

--Make effects unique and interesting

Now, alternative to changing arbitrary non-choice equalizers into arbitrary choice equalizers, where you get to choose from two good options or two bad options as described in the preceding paragraph, you can maintain the non-choice element but make the effects sufficiently unique. For instance, instead of having one of the "bad effects" equalizers state that you lose 100 influence, you can have it say "The church warns that you have earned the ire of the gods, and that if you don't genuflect and recommit to your devotions, you will be punished by divine retribution. (you must surrender X influence points to the church. If you have insufficient influence in your stockpile, your population growth rate is halved for the next 5 turns." It is still an unqualified bad effect (thus serving as an arbitrary equalizer), whether you lose influence or population growth, and the choice is not yours, but it becomes more unique and interesting. Or maybe you could randomly lose 2 units to desertation, or mercenary hiring is cheaper for a few turns, or some other similar unique and interesting effect, rather than just a balancing the checkbook numbers game of losing/gaining gold, influence, mana, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with losing/gaining gold, etc. -- those effects can be important, and combined in choosing between two good choices or two bad ones.


Besides equalizers, there are a few more functional categories that I can see -- story (plot stuff like nilroggi, background atmosphere like world history, etc.), Incentives(a reward for being the first one to discover a tech, construct a building, or attain a specific honor level. Or rewards that aren't just limited to the first person to get there), rule changers(events that change the rules of the game for everyone and shifting gameplay dynamics), bag-o'-tricks(stuff you can hold and play at a later time, and stuff that's just plain Cool. Of course, an event can fit into more than one of these functional categories. You can have an equalizer that has story value.

But the reason I differentiate between these functional categories is because each category has a different purpose and the events engine coding should take them into account. The probability scaling for the good/bad events depending on power rankings may be needed for the equalizers, but may be a bad idea for a story event. Or perhaps the conditions tied to the story events are different from those of others. An engine whose code fails to recognize these differences may be at a disadvantage.

So those are my thoughts on the equalizers, basically any arbitrary event that has an unqualified good or bad effect. I might expound on my thoughts and suggestions for the other categories at another time..

	03-09-2004 08:42									#23
	Got spare money?

And a few more events -- usual caveats as per Reign of Terror


Name: Order of the Sacred Heart

Category: Honor

Triggering Event: Upon meeting a specific minimum honor threshold, this event has a 3% chance of happening. Increment this chance by 3% for each turn player remains at an honor level above this threshold. This event is placed into a coma if player falls out of minimum honor bracket, and reactivated upon player reentering bracket.

Effect: Attracted by your sterling reputation, a group of honorable knights from across the land have approached you. They propose organizing an Order of the Sacred Heart, so that those of like mind can band together. This new Order will be tasked with spreading the gospel of honor and promulgating a new code of ethics.

--Fund the Order of the Sacred Heart (-Gold) (Each turn, you may select one of your units and transform it into a Knight of the Sacred Heart(new unit stats). You may not Knight more than one unit in any given turn)(Removes this event from happening for any other player) (Allows Resolute event)

--Applaud the efforts of this group, but regret that you can't afford to fund them (This event will recur every 10 turns, provided you have at least X honor at that time. If another player has chosen to fund the Order in the interim, this event is removed from your event pool and will not reappear at the designated time).

--A fanciful but foolish idea. Send them away. (This event is removed from your event pool. But is still available for others.)

Flavor Text: Insert spiffy text


Name: Resolute

Category: Honor, Leadership

Triggering Event: Only available to player who choose to fund Order of the Sacred Heart. You must have lost 5 Knights of the Sacred Heart, and lost a province to someone with negative honor. Also must meet minimum honor requirements. Each time a Knight of the Sacred Heart dies, a check is made to see if this event appears. Each Knight's death increases the chance of this appearing the next time.

Effects: After seeing their brethren die to the villainous scoundrels of the world, the Order of the Sacred Heart pulled together and steeled their resolve, becoming ever more resolute. They've called a meeting and discussed the recent death of their members. In that meeting, they elected a new leader -- [insert historical name] the Resolute.

Summons [Insert historical name] the Resolute, and two Knights of the Sacred Heart, to join your forces. [insert hisotrical name] the Resolute gives an extra movement point to all Knights of the Sacred Heart stacked with him. Knights of the Sacred Heart under his control gains the special ability of Martyrdom -- if activated it doubles Attack/Defense values of Knight, Knight is killed at end of turn!

Flavor Text: Insert spiffy text


Alternatively, you can get rid of the [historical leader] and just have Resolute give the Martyrdom ability(which must be activated at start of combat?) and extra movement to all Knights of the Order of the Sacred Heart. Perhaps instead of an extra movement point, the Martyrdom ability doubles A/D and movement as well. Giving you fast kamikaze attackers/defenders. Loss of any knight would hurt since you can only create one a turn, and it has to be made out of an existing unit.

Honor can also be attached to the Knights. Either 1 point for each Knight you control, or 1 point for each knight that you sacrifice to Martyrdom. Since you are limited to creating one Knight each turn, that's a optimal gain of one honor point a turn, not too unbalancing, I hope. And it creates the dynamic where you are trading honor for effectiveness. In the case where 1 knight = 1 honor, you choose between keeping him around for the honor or risking him in battle and losing honor. In the case where 1 martyred Knight = 1 honor, you are choosing between martyring the knight for honor and risking your troops being underpowered, or keeping him around for protection, but not being able to pump up your honor. Although I suppose in the latter case, you can keep them and cash them all in when you have enough to cash in for honor to win, but if they die in battle w/o martyrdom activated, you lose the potential honor gain.

Last edited by ApolytonGuest on 03-09-2004 at 09:31

	03-09-2004 10:12									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Name: Righteousness

Triggering: You must meet specific minimum Honor level. This event check is made if you are attacked by someone with negative honor.

Effect: The people of Candle'Bre have always placed great faith in the words of the lords they considered honorable and righteous. And not a few lords have been know to make use of their popularity to publicly harangue their enemies.

Adds an permanent entry in your Book of Fate, "Righteous Screed." Must meet minimum honor level to activate this option. You may not use "Righteous Screed" more than once per turn. May only target province of players with negative honor.

Righteous Screed -- Spend X gold, province targeted by Righteous Screed suffers a 30% loyalty drop. Lose diplomatic points with target.

Flavor Text: Insert spiffy text


Name: The Covenant

Triggering: Placed into your event pool only after Righteous Screed has been activated 10 times by you.

Effect: The lords of Candle'Bre have grown concerned with the way you seek to bend the ears of their peasants. They demand that you desist. The affairs of lords are best resolved in gentelmenly discourse, and match of arms if needed -- not aired like fishwive's quarrels in the marketplace!

--Agree to restrain your public outbursts. Pledge to a Covenant not to attack their reputations in public. (Gain X honor, "Righteous Screed" is removed from your Book of Fate)

--Never. If these rogues would behave like currs, then currs they shall be known! (All currently negative honor players decare war on you, and form a Covenant to never make peace with you. For the rest of the game, you may not make peace with any negative honor players. Henceforth, righteous screed may be used twice per turn, and gold cost of usage is halved. In the future, any player who is not at war with you will declare war on you if you use "Righteous Screed" on them, and will similiary join the Covenant of those who oppose you.)

Flavor Text: insert spiffy text

	03-09-2004 10:34									#25
	Support Apolyton

Name: Malicious Intent

Category: Infamy

Trigger: Upon reaching a specific minimum Infamy

Effect: They say the best way to defeat an enemy is by making him into a friend. They're only half right. The best way to kill an enemy is by making him into a friend, and then, when he least suspects it, knifing him in the back. Make friends with your enemies, ally with them, get them to show you their tactics, their plans for their fortifications, their city layouts, their troops placements -- all in the name of sharing innocuous information to strengthen strategic defensive alliances of course. But in reality, to help you better plan your invasion routes.

From now on, each time you attack a player who has ever been allied with you at any time, you gain +1 attack. Also, any espionage used against such a player has increased chance of success. These bonus only applies if you have Infamy greater than X.

Flavor Text: insert spiffy text

Last edited by ApolytonGuest on 03-09-2004 at 10:50

	03-09-2004 10:49									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

One final note before signing off for now. . . .

We can do our best to evaluate events, but any consideration of how powerful/weak/balanced/unbalanced an event is will be a guestimate at best. We can judge whether an event is interesting, but the true test of balance will require actual playtesting. I expect any list, no matter how polished, to undergo significant change after actual playtesting for balance.

	03-09-2004 17:10									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Whooohoooo! Ag, you're hired!

And if you really wanna sign up....shoot me a PM...I could use a hand with some of this writing stuffage anyways...

-=Vel=-

	03-09-2004 21:45									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Was half asleep when I posted my initial reply...now that I'm more awake and alert, let me also say that I agree....what we're doing here amounts to an "educated guess" as to what's balanced. The only way to know for sure will be to submit the entire system to an extended Trial By Fire, and that's very definitely coming.

In the meantime tho, we'll kick back with a few virtual beers and do our best to ensure that when the Trial By Fire happens, we've at least nipped a couple things in the bud...

-=Vel=-

	04-09-2004 04:26									#29
	Put an end to popups!

Just playing around....

Name: Putting the 'Ho' back in Ho-Ho-Ho
Category: Easter Egg Event
Triggering: Only occurs every 12th turn (December). You must have garrisons containing mercenaries in at least 50% of your territories, and you must have launched no attacks on the previous turn. If all conditions have been met and the turn number is divisible by 12, this event has a 100% chance of occuring. Event only occurs 1x per game. The first player to receive it puts the event into a coma for all other players.

Effects:
The winter months are always the longest for the soldiers of your Realm, so this year, you decide to give them a little present, in the form of some attractive ladies hired from neighboring lands to pay your men a visit and spread some Christmas cheer. (All your troops gain +1 on their A/D values for the next three turns. Mercenaries may be boosted to +3 (normally a max of +2) during this period. All provinces containing your armies, and all provinces adjacent to them see a +2% growth rate nine turns from the turn this event occurs on.

Other Instructions: This event resolves when it is received.
Flavor Text: Merry Christmas!

	04-09-2004 07:41									#30
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I think an additional restriction needs to be added to Malicious Intent. The bonus should only apply against enemies with lower Infamy than the player, perhaps even a stipulated honor gap of 10 pts. This restriction would serve to help polarize the game's factions.

First of all, it makes you wary of allying with someone who can later reach sufficient Infamy (or already has) to activate Malicious Intent. Second, when you see someone who you've allied with start to inch up to the threshold for it, you can respond in two ways.

If you're honorable, you better start preparing defenses or attacking that person before he reaches that level -- thus setting the "good" guys against the Infamy guys out of self-preservation to stop them from getting Malicious Intent's bonus. If you're on the Infamy side and you see your ally or ex-ally about to get Malicious Intent, you better start being evil yourself to bump up your own Infamy as a protection from the bonus.

Either way, it helps to increase the polarization of Infamy/Honor in the world, and forces players to choose teams.

I'm not too satisfied right now with the Order of the Sacred Heart/Resolute due to its exclusive nature. It would suck to bump up your honor only to find that someone else snagged those events and precluded you from getting it. If we do go the exclusivity route, then it needs to be more targeted, like available only to the guy with the highest Honor, but even then it seems redundant since there's already an incentive to get the most honor (to get the Honor Win). I think these two events may need some reworking to remove exclusivity, but I do like the concept of being able to transform units into Knights with special suicidal bonuses. The transformation aspect changes play dynamics and is cool, while the suicidal aspect makes each decision more of a trade-off.