23-06-2004 08:08									#1
	Overthrow of the Hive scenario Full PM-box? Change here!

The story:

In the 21st century, as tensions mounted on Earth, the U.N. came together to authorize and fund an interplanetary colonization mission. The most highly qualified people from each field were selected to go on this historic mission. Chairman Shen-ji Yang was one of those who were chosen to go. However, at the last minute, Yang backed out, and instead chose to remain on Earth, where he had a brilliant and rising career as a military general.

While things proceeded badly onboard the Unity, things were even worse on Earth. Yang and his followers managed to stage a coup in the Chinese government. As Yang declared himself supreme dictator of a totalitarian state, some of the nations of the world grew hostile to this new regime. Added to this was a worldwide oil crisis and a scrambling by all the nations of the world to secure the world's last dwindling oil reserves. Events snowballed into an all-out WW3. Over the course After over 50 years of fighting the Earth's popluation faced mass casualties from famine, war, disease, nerve gas, and radiation. Yang firmly established himself as a ruthless dictator, ordering numerous nerve staples, chemical attacks, and nuclear missle strikes. Yang and his totalitarian state was finally victorious, and Yang made his empire into an Orwellian police state so that mankind would be safe and secure, and would never have to face that kind of destruction again (so he told his citizens).

Meanwhile, as the crew onboard the Unity approached Chiron, they sent out probes to investigate the nature of this new planet. What they found was alarming - vicious alien worms, relentless fungus, and horrific locusts. They decided to head back to Earth ASAP. Unfortunately, their equipment was contaminated with the native life of Chiron, which they would unknowingly bring back to Earth.

As the factions approached Earth again, they were meeted by a familiar face on the telescreen - that of Chairman Shen-ji Yang. After learning of Yang's global domination of the planet, the crew factions decided to make sure to keep their comm frequencies open in order to deal with any devilry prompted by Yang. They suspected that Yang would not be happy having to share the planet with others again.

You can choose to be any of the 7 factions (although you'll probably want to be someone besides Yang). Victory can be by conquest or economy. No coop victory enabled! You have all of the comm frequencies starting out. Blind research, tech steal on. Yang has about a 100 year start on you, so good luck!

Attachment: overthrow of the hive.zip
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	23-06-2004 12:16									#2
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Yikes! This is tough! The key is to get planetary networks or NL math ASAP! Either probe NL Math, or some impact squads and reverse engineer the weaponry. But impact rovers are a must! I just got creamed as Zakharov. I still had applied physics when Yang came with impact squads.

I've made an alternate version that is a little less difficult. Getting that balance of difficulty correct is oh so tricky. I think this version will be at least somewhat possible. If you can win on the earlier version, then you are a SMAC GOD!

Attachment: overthrow of the hive revised.zip
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	23-06-2004 14:18									#3
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Good ol' planned forest Improver rush, the 'PFUSH' as I call it.
It doesn't make you Godlike, you need to get a continent and hold it until air power arrives.

	24-06-2004 00:14									#4
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Hehe, trust me, you do have to be godlike to resist Yang in the first version! It's not just the impact troops that make it difficult. Yang has such a huge population and infrastructure already in place. He came at me with over 15 impact squads within 30 turns from the beginning, when I was just founding my 7th base or so. He brings along plenty of probe teams too to wreak havoc, mind controlling bases and units. Plus he had all of the early game SP's, and had bases on each continent.

I've created yet another version that is even less difficult. I still got clobbered big time with the second version, and I was super ICS-ing and doing everything I could to get on my feet quickly. With this last version, I finally managed to secure a firm beachhead, so to speak, so this should be the final version I do (hopefully) .

Attachment: overthrow of the hive version 3.0.zip
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	24-06-2004 05:19									#5
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Okay, this version's difficulty is just right. I'm playing as Lal this time, and I have a secure empire of about 10 bases up in north Asia. So far I've been able to repel every attack of Yang's, but just barely. My impact rovers (and at the point I am at now, missle rovers) are sure getting a tough workout. I barely have enough time to repair them before the next wave of 5-10 Hive units comes marching up to my base. I've made it to IA and I'm almost at doc:AP, so I guess I might make it. It still seems up in the air though, because Yang's power graph is still going in a pretty steep incline up.

So far the only AI factions to give me any real help have been Santiago and Miriam, and to a lesser extent, Zakharov. The others are getting helplessly PWNed by Yang.

I've went fundy/planned for now. The extra morale and the probe safety really helps. All of my tech has been probe-raped from Yang, and that will probably continue to be the case.

I'm starting to try to improve my core bases a little. If I just produce units, Yang is going to run away from me in infrastructure. My first supply crawlers are going into the field right now.

I'm a little nervous about Yang getting needlejets. I can't decide if I should build Aerospace complexes first, or just start building penetrators, or build interceptors. Any thoughts? I'm facing an opponent with vastly greater production power. I suspect that if I concentrate on interceptors, which are more expensive, then Yang is going to clobber me by sheer numbers of needlejets. I guess I'll immediately start building some penetrators.

I'm a bit nervous about Yang getting needlejets.

Going on the offensive has been completely out of the question so far, and I'm wondering if I'm going to be playing defense for the whole game. I've been giving all of the other AI's all of my (Yang's probe-raped) technology, and I'm hoping that they will begin to go on the offensive a bit and take some pressure off of me.

It's a fun game so far, no doubt about that.

	24-06-2004 17:33									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Damn right it's fun, although version 2.0 hasn't been entirely impossible so far. I started off in South America, expanded a bit (aided by a lot of pod-popped nutrients), and have managed to just stave off Yang's first attacks. I'm now at Impact troops, while he's still using Lasers, so I should be able to roll him back once I can get a few Impact Rovers out into the field.

	25-06-2004 03:32									#7
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Yay! I'm glad you like it. In my test run as Santiago, I was holding him back okay with two bases that I had rushed perimeter defenses in. Things were going alright until he mind controlled one of them, taking my frontline defenders and defenses with it. After that I was overrun.

If you make it into the mid/late game, I'm curious to hear what Yang's strategies are like. I set his priorities on explore/build/conquer, so when he's not building choas squads he should be building colony pods, formers, facilities, and all that stuff to help his infrastructure. Plus I'm sure he'll have built most of the SP's (although make sure to snag the HSA. You can't let him have it, that's for sure!). But with all those bases and SP's, he should still be a tough opponent, even after you've ousted him from South America. Who knows? You may even have to execute some sort of huge D-Day invasion just to get a foothold on the main continent.

	25-06-2004 14:26									#8
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An update: Yang has now been completely pushed out of both North and South America, thanks in part to the efforts of the Beleivers, who kept Yang's troops occupied in their East Coast bases while my Impact Rovers moved in to strike. He just developed Synthetic Fossil Fuels, unfortunately, but I was able to steal the tech when I captured one of his bases, so we're now on an even footing and separated by large oceans. Ironically enough, I'll probably have to 'prune' the Beleivers a bit in the near future, which shouldn't be much trouble.

	25-06-2004 14:31									#9
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Oh, and one thing I found surprisingly useful in my anti-Hive campaigns has been the loan option. By borrowing money from Mrogan (who's been sitting in 5-6 bases in Western Australia), I was able to fund the updating of my rovers, which gave me a crucial edge over Yang's 2-2-1 units.

	25-06-2004 23:45									#10
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Wow, way to go! Now hopefully Yang's absence will let you build up some infrastructure. You have all the time you want to build up for an invasion. There's practically no time limit (I think I set the end date at MY 3000) and there's no transcendence victory. I think if you've made it this far, you've turned the tide. Have you gotten crawlers yet?

Yeah, loans are great, and also being the tech broker between all of the friendly factions, and then selling tech to everyone for EC's is useful. My main strategy was to mind control away a lot of Yang's weaponry, which needed some serious EC's.

I'm glad the AI is giving you some help. My original intention was for all of the other factions to rise up and work together to overthrow Yang. I made all of the non-Yang AI's cooperative with the human player, so I hope they are lending you some aid.

How are the AI's on the main continent doing? Are Lal, Zak, and Deidre still even there? In my tests with the harder versions, Yang was able to make AI Deidre a submissive fairly quickly. I could tell because Yang had units stationed inside Deidre's bases after a war, and there's no way that such a pact would be on equal terms.

	26-06-2004 07:19									#11
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quote: Wow, way to go! Now hopefully Yang's absence will let you build up some infrastructure. You have all the time you want to build up for an invasion. There's practically no time limit (I think I set the end date at MY 3000) and there's no transcendence victory. I think if you've made it this far, you've turned the tide. Have you gotten crawlers yet?

No, no crawlers yet; Blind Research is a ***** in that way, although I do have all the prequisite techs, so I'll probably stumble on IA sooner or later.

quote: How are the AI's on the main continent doing? Are Lal, Zak, and Deidre still even there? In my tests with the harder versions, Yang was able to make AI Deidre a submissive fairly quickly. I could tell because Yang had units stationed inside Deidre's bases after a war, and there's no way that such a pact would be on equal terms.

They're still around; Deidre seems to be going through cycles of 'attack the Hive; get hammered; lose bases; make peace; repeat', but she's still around, while Lal is hanging on and has actually managed to seize Hive abses occasionally, and Zak was mostly left alone until now. He's got most of central Africa, and Yang has only now declared war.

	26-06-2004 08:50									#12
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A further update: After a lot of tech-selling to the more abckward factions, I am now in contorl of the British Isles, having seized the southern bases and the substantial army within via a mind control probe, then used them to seize the northern base. This gave me both IA and D:AP, and Yang offered a truce immediately afterwards, which I accepted. So... with any luck, I should be able to settle in and build for a bit before I continue attacking Yang.

EDIT: I also managed to complete the Planetary Energy Grid right before Yang could finish it, which has given my economy a substantial boost.

Last edited by GeneralTacticus on 26-06-2004 at 09:02

	26-06-2004 10:19									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright! Woohoo! I'm really rootin' for ya!

So, what's your next target gonna be? You could try...
Northern France (via Britian, a la D-Day)?
Or Scandinavia (has Yang colonized that region yet?)
or perhaps Africa (maybe Zakharov can help you get a beachhead. Are you pacted with him?)
or maybe something else? What do you think?

	26-06-2004 12:05									#14
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At the moment, I'm not planning any immediate action... I want to terraform a bit, get my research rate up, and modernise my miltiary (currently, most of my Rovers still use Impact weapons). I'm also contemplating a war against the Believers, as they occupy a lot of North America and aren't the friendliest of neighbours.

Once I do start moving again, though, I think it will be on Europe... I can potentially fly needlejets and choppers from North America to Britain in a single turn, which will be very handy when it comes to establishing aerial supremacy, and it's a good way from the Hive heartland in China; there's a lot of terrain and several factions between there and Europe, which should slow down any reinforcements Yang tries to send.

	27-06-2004 12:19									#15
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I've decided to take a crack at this, after a couple of false starts as Lal (ie ended up **** creek without a paddle...) I decided to try it as Zak.
Drove the pods down to the jungle and performed 100% dense ICS until I had about a dozen bases and Yang got stroppy. Now it's 2198 and I'm in a good position, Yang attacked but I borrowed money from Morgan and Dee and probed Yangs bases (or my bases left for him to capture) to bring swathes of his units over to the University side. So I have a large standing army of recon rovers (mostly mine), and some res armor defenders (Yangs), and some impact infantry. Plus a few Perimter defenses that got transferred to my bases as I stole Yangs bases. So basically having thwarted the initial rush I feel it should be clear sailing. But what I REALLY REALLY want is the VW, might have to hold the line against Yang and disband units to get it...

edit: in 2214 I got the VW by disbanding everything and it's mum). So thats really sweet. Switched to Freemarket and Police State over the next two turns, for one of the best wartime SE's for Uni doing ICS. Now there is nothing stopping me ICS'ing and building units until the cows come home.

2225 Upate: Took Workers Nest with Missile units (first non-probe conquest of a Hive base). Yang has missile units and D:AP, I've seen one noodle. Soon I'll have the CDF which in combo with VW means ICS heaven. I really need to destroy the south african hive base (it hasn't spawned pods thankfully) so I can sprawl over the continent... the assimilation of Workers Nest created a considerable buffer between Hive and University territory, so I should be able to focus on growth and securing South Africa.
Unbelievably the other factions are all treatied with Yang, except Morgan (my sworn Pactmate) who is doing an excellent job of buying out the Hiverian interests in Aussie, go Morgan! (but leave some cash for me )
Note: This is the 1st version posted, the hard one. I think it would be possible for Zak, Morgan, Santi and Miriam.

2243: Captured Sheng-ji Yang Base completely securing South Africa. Morgan has Yang down to 1 base on Aussie. I now rank #1 in Tech (mainly due to stealing and tech brokering). I'm founding new bases like crazy, filling in South Africa, all new bases pump 1 plasma sentinel and 3 formers (luv support), old bases are building crawlers, pods and some infrastructure. Thanks to my improved income I'm upgrading most my higher-morale units to sophoric gas missile/res laser - Yang is using a fair bit of native life, which doesn't go down well with FM (altough missile artillery is reducing Yangs attacks to dust).

2254: I'm clearly in the position of dominance, with my tech rate exceeding Yangs (My 320 labs/turn to Yangs 160), and my research is only really coming online now, with the condensing of the jungle, I might pop-boom. The Hive attacks crossing the Sahara are truly pathetic now, the combination of bombardment and gas is overkill, everything fights at half health and green morale, I can;t imagine Hive soliders volunteering to fight at the University front...
But interestly Yang isn't taking his fate lying down, he is getting all the other AI's to declare war on Morgan - I'm not sure why he wants them to gang Morgan rather than me, prehaps AI's refuse to allow #1 to gang-bang #2 on the powerchart.... Anyway, Morgan kicked Yang off Aussie and had the audacity to claim he had broken the back of Hive resistence... what a joker.

Last edited by Blake on 27-06-2004 at 16:45

	28-06-2004 07:41									#16
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2270 Update:
Built the Planetary Datalinks, more for denial. I have fusion power, and next tech is likely to be Orbital Spaceflight. Yang is still dreaming of Advanced Military Algorithms (I think he's researching Env.Eco now), and I have stopped gifting the other AI's tech along that path (but I have given them D:AP). I think they are refusing to co-operate with Yang anyway, since I've given several of them env.eco and Yang still hasn't got it.

The only way Yang could possibly turn the game around is by dropping a PB on University Base - but he has already fallen far too far behind in tech.

	28-06-2004 09:01									#17
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Wow, Blake, already stomping Yang?! It sounds like you're pulling ahead for good. That was a nice little tactic there, letting Yang take a base, and then probing it back along with the units and Perimeter. I think I'll have to try that sometime.

And on the difficult version too! Nice work!

	28-06-2004 10:06									#18
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2275 Update: (screenshot below)
The next tech WAS Orbital Spaceflight, and I immediately flicked 3 orbitals up (to give +2 food every base) and started my Planned pop-boom (I switched to demo a fair while ago). I traded Plan.Eco from Morgan after Yang built the AV.

I'm now about 5 turns into my pop-boom... about 400 income per turn, techs every 5 (should be down to 4 soon). Having finally got Env.Eco Yang is down to tech every 6. But he is losing money.

I still need a few more techs before I can go on a warpath, Magtubes and Shard weapons. Then I'll finally move the frontline forward (it's been static for the entire game).With those technologies Yang will be removed from the mainland... then because raise land is disabled I'll shockingly have to build some boats to finish him off.

Attachment: surrender yang.jpg
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	29-06-2004 03:21									#19
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Well, hopefully Yang will put up a decent fight. I see he's still way ahead in the powerchart, which means diddly squat for the AI since they don't know how to use that power effectively. But still Yang should be able to throw some pretty decent numbers at you, especially when you stage the assault on his core.

	29-06-2004 04:00									#20
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Unfortunately that wont be the case. Look what happened to power when I exceeded Yangs weapon technology (by getting the fusion laser). My economy is also positively humming along, after another 7 turns of pop-boom.

Attachment: power and economy.jpg
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	29-06-2004 04:21									#21
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But not one to go down without a fight, next turn Yang did this

(Survivors of this sortie against my unarmored units: 0. My "birdwhacker" rovers are quite plentiful)

Attachment: bad little yang.jpg
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	30-06-2004 06:53									#22
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2300 Update:
Yang has largely caught up in raw military strength, totting tachyeon fusion units. However the University has gained the Cyborg Factory and Nano Factory SP's and all sorts of nice stuff like hovertanks, clean reactor, photon armor. With the triad of critical war techs finally in place (MMI, Magtubes, Adv.Spaceflight) it is atlast time for Yang to face his destiny.

	30-06-2004 09:31									#23
	Put an end to popups!

Take 'em Blake! I've never seen you on the offensive....

	30-06-2004 12:12									#24
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Incoming PBs from Yang with love!
You should probably protect Morgan, too. Those other factions will make useful targets.

	30-06-2004 18:48									#25
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Morgan lost my favor when he declared our pact null and void over me running green. It was at the end of sunspots, so Morgan had many turns of pent up frustration... Dee is still a pactmate, she may be useful due to her location in the heartlands of Yang.

2304 Upate: (also suddenly 1AM ). Miriam and Lal get the gift of Fusion Power, and suddenly want to pact with me (Miriam, in spite of me running demo/knowledge). Ho-hum. Morgan remains content to be treatied. Sparta is vendetta'd.

My attack has been slicing open the Hive, soon the Hive will be eviscerated, with the violent & surgical removal of their SP bases, bringing the HGP, ME, WP, PEG, AV and MTCC under University Control - all those SPs are clustered in 4 Hive bases, imagine the hurt to Hive drone control and economy, the Hive will be totally crippled (altough loss of HQ may improve ineffeciency). The PTS is already captured. The Empath Guild, the Hive SP I would most like, is unfortunately far far away on the West coast of South America.

My magtube attack involves laying about 10 tiles of track per turn (captured bases means the progress per turn is more like 13 tiles), each tile is guarded by an AAA unit to protect the Formers and military. Units attack exclusvely from the tubes, wasting no moves. The tube is beelining to The Hive and all those nice SP's, hive bases on either side of the track are being left for later. Units are mostly Shard Infantry and Tanks, clean with gas upgrade to lower enemy morale. (counters the sensor bonus, pretty much). Defenders are simple 1-<5>-1's. There are also some SAM rovers and Empath rovers and Amphib tanks mixed in there.

The America situation is quite interesting, Miriam has a firm hold on Canada - and appears to be taking Hive bases - how - I have no idea. Her units are all obsolete... prehaps she mind controls the bases. Yang and Santiago are in a strong pact, and control the rest of America. I havn't decided how America will be invaded, mostly depends on what techs are available, I hope to be able to get the Space Elevator and drop troops into Miriams lands, sweeping down taking Hive and Spartan bases, installing psi gates when they become available and so on.

	01-07-2004 05:43									#26
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Another screenie, after I took the "Golden four" Hive bases. The elimination of the Hive HQ proved even more beneficial than I expected, the Hive finally getting some positive cash flow going - this despite the loss of the PEG! (the reason is, without a HQ, all bases are considered to be 16 tiles from the HQ - resulting in about 50% effic losses with no creche, or 25% with a creche)

But now the Hive is starting to cower with the other factions, down the bottom of the powerchart.

As you can possibly see, I lay the track to the Hives interior, secured the SP bases (with tacyeon defenses - for show), now I'm back-killing and consolidating, securing the southern coastline against Hive needlejets raids - which have been persistent and killed a good number of my units (few of any consequence though). I almost ran out of shard infantry due to hive raids (and the fact they spend every other turn healing) meaning my primary attackers have been shard tanks, with the infantry just going in to take out the first couple of defenders.

I also gained Planetary Govoner in 2306 - it was fairly close altough my 3 allies provided enough votes to offset the Hives empath guild.

Attachment: fall of the empire.jpg
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	01-07-2004 14:23									#27
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2309 Update: Researched Secrets of AC, Secrets of the Manifolds and Biomachinery. With the conversion of my entire specialist population to Transcendi research took another jump. At 2 per turn at 100% labs, to 1 per turn at 0% labs.

Last turn I coerced Lal and Dee into attacking Yang (threatened to break pact, they folded like wet tissue), I gave them each some advanced prototypes of my high tech killing machines as well as some technology. Miriam, who I have given less aid, is driving Yang from North America, pushing him back to the Spartans. I've given her more tech (including Cybernetic) and a 1500 credit loan to keep her warmachine going, Santiago broke her pact with Yang (I think when Yang fell below me in Power - Santiago doesn't respect those without power) and now Yang is now Vendetta with everyone, enemies on every side

2312: Yang says Farewell to his homeland as the last Hive base on that continent was captured (it was, appropriately enough, Huddling of the People)

On the US. East Coast Great Clustering was captured by a naval taskforce (2 cruisers 12r,8r,6*2 and 1 transport with 4 Shard tanks and 4 8r infantry). A tacyheon defense immediately rushed. A small fleet of cruisers is sweeping down to australia, capturing the drivel of Hive sea bases in that area.

2313: A whole horde of techs come up, including the techs for Space Elevator, Singularity Reactor and Nessy mining platforms. I have nowhere near the cash needed for the new stuff to buy, so economy has been set to 100% (still an easy tech in 1)

2314: With the Hive so thoroughly crippled it is now an extermination campaign, two mighty Singularity Tectonic Missiles bridge the gap between Africa and America, drop tanks fall from the sky and rip into lightly defended Hive bases on islands. Ships streak through the waters to isolated Hive sea bases, Choppers howl through the skies, mounted with mighty loud speakers to make them... you know... sound scarier. Because those singularity reactors and anti-gravity repellors are pretty quiet.

2315: Yang is losing bases everywhere, his empire unravelling at a tremendous rate. I take the last two Hive bases in Mexico, Miriam had conquered all of USA, mostly with human waves of rovers and infantry combined with serious probe rape.

2316: The last of Yangs land bases are conquered, leaving him with 2 sea bases, 1 next to an island with some Amphib Tanks on it, the other in deep sea with a chopper nearby on standby and a cruiser within one turns travel.
Santiago had been at Vendetta with me for decades, so i take one of her bases. Cool and collected as always, Santiago immediately surrenders, avoiding needless bloodshed. I was most impressed.

2317: Yang calls for his yearly begathon, and atlast offers surrender. I politely decline, then squish him like a bug.

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	01-07-2004 17:21									#28
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Winning was a mere formality. Economic was incredbly cheap (at 11000 credits) probably because all the other factions were pacted to me (I bullied Morgan into a pact). But instead (and to save 20 turns) I chose to make all the other factions submissive, Morgan, Dee and Lal all surrended at the first base taken, like Santiago.

But Miriam, possibly overconfident after kicking hive butt, wanted to play hardball. Unfortunately for Miriam, unlike Yang, I play hardball with 30!-12 units w/ antigrav strats. After being kicked around Canada for a few turns Miriam saw sense and chose surrender.

The end.
2321

	01-07-2004 20:31									#29
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quote: Ships streak through the waters to isolated Hive sea bases, Choppers howl through the skies, mounted with mighty loud speakers to make them... you know... sound scarier. Because those singularity reactors and anti-gravity repellors are pretty quiet.

Cheers all around. Well done Blake.

-S

	04-07-2004 04:02									#30
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Bravo! You really kicked some serious Hiverian @**!

Well, I guess I need to get back to the drawing board in designing an AI. The problem with this Hive AI seemed to be that Yang's difficulty was inconsistent. Ideally, the AI should be competitive throughout the game, like a human opponent - neither hopelessly overpowering or pathetically weak. Those tight games are by far the most enjoyable. I guess this Hive AI exhibited both - hopelessly overpowering in the beginning, pathetically weak after you turn the tide.

But how, HOW will I get the AI to put up a good game?!?

Satellites, maybe? Hmmm...I need to test this.

And again, way to go Blake! I hope you had fun blasting Yang away into oblivion.