23-06-2004 19:23									#1
	City number 2 - where O where? Tired of ads?

This coming turnchat we will get to the point we have a settler to build city number 2 with. There are two prevailing options mentioned so far.

Both are to the SW of Feudality (our capital) along the river and floodplains in the direction of some forests recently sighted by our exploring warrior.

First one:



This is closer to Feudality, and can share with that city the two floodplains irrigated and roaded at the time, as well as the irrigated, roaded desert. It can use an oasis, and all the other tiles its radius extend to in the screenshot. Due to the overlap not enough new tiles may be claimed for allocating land out to the Barons to start the Feudal part of the game.

Second one:



This city is one tile further from Feudality, so will take an extra turn to move and build, and will thus have less overlap with Feudality. It still gets access to an already irrigated roaded fllodplain and one desert. This city, being further away, brings more tiles into our influence, and may give us enough to start the Feudal allocation of land.

These screenshots are NOT from the actual game, but from a sim I made based on what we currently know of the world for workforce testing purposes. Some of the tiles to the SW in this new city's radius will likely be different in the actual game.

As we will not be actually building the settler until the chat AFTER the coming one (in just over 27 hours!), you have three days for this, however unless there are significant posts/votes for a different position than either of these two, the settler will move into position for the FIRST city site in the coming turnchat. Register your different point of view QUICKLY.

WIA.

	23-06-2004 20:05									#2
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Um, there is a major conflict between these maps and the one on an earlier thread on where the ocean starts.

With the ocean located in the earlier thread along with the river extending all the way to it there, I'd vote 1. With the ocean this close combined with the Volcano, I'd vote 2.

	23-06-2004 20:32									#3
	Re: City number 2 - where O where? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt These screenshots are NOT from the actual game, but from a sim I made based on what we currently know of the world for workforce testing purposes. Some of the tiles to the SW in this new city's radius will likely be different in the actual game.

Guess I didn't put this in a prominent enough place. Those tiles are almost definitely NOT ocean in the actual save. I just made them so in the sim I used for these screenshots. I'm not enough of a picture whiz to superimpose a settler on the actual screenshot.

FWIW, here is the area we currently know of that these cities could go on.

The red dot is city site # 1. The blue dot is city site #2

	23-06-2004 20:36									#4
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hehe.

Now you know why I don't run sims, they just get you into trouble.

	23-06-2004 20:52									#5
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...and keep you up until 4am

	23-06-2004 21:00									#6
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I'd prefer the second site merely because of fashion. I dislike ICS and like my cities spread out a bit. Kinda stupid for Feudalism, but anyway.

Maybe site #2 offers more production. Site one most probably doesn't.

	23-06-2004 22:36									#7
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we should explore more but it's good idea to start discussion earlier

Last edited by ormuzd on 23-06-2004 at 22:42

	23-06-2004 23:36									#8
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I think the question is answered if we move the Warrior S next turn.

My opinion at this time is that GF's site (W of Red) would be best. That would give us at least 2 Forest tiles we could chop (saving one for shield use) for a Granary build and give us a little more room between us and the Volcano. The only drawback is the city would be 5 distance instead of 4.5 (for corruption purposes), and probably 2-3 later cities would be closer and knock it down the OCN list a bit. Given the terrain, our likely city placement (not ICS) and the size of the map (higher OCN), I don't think it will be a problem.

	23-06-2004 23:56									#9
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Ah. Those are FORREST.

Can scarcely remember these standard graphics.

Didn't think anyone had those anymore.

	24-06-2004 02:20									#10
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I'm all for number two. It has better potential shield supply and might possibly be a potential Wonder site early on.

(Especially if we can trade for Ivory............)

	24-06-2004 09:02									#11
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#2

For lotso gameplay reasons, plus the Feudal gets STARTED UP.

EDIT: #2 gives us 29 ownable (non-city) tiles, and as there are 20 members and 22 tiles minimum to commence greedy capitalism, it works

So does #1, but that's only 26, and plus the gameplays listed above, #2 is better

	24-06-2004 15:56									#12
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Hold it a second. The original proposed Citysite 2 is the tile NW of the one marked in the picture. It is also adjacent to the river but had more than one forest available.

The REAL choice #2:

Attachment: citysites.jpg
This has been downloaded 50 time(s).

	24-06-2004 20:20									#13
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I like that new city site #2 (assuming that is a river I see on the edge of the tile right below it, which I believe it is).

	24-06-2004 21:42									#14
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Follow Mr twitchy eye.

	24-06-2004 23:01									#15
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Thanks Ghengis! I thought something seemed different

Citysite #2 still better.

	24-06-2004 23:09									#16
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I'm not so sure that new #2 is FP from the map alone.
Would be easy to tell from within the game. As an Agricutural civ, we don't want to establish a city in the desert under despotism one tile from the extra food bonus.

In any case, #1 is an excelent spot looking at the known screen shot, and voting it.

Warrior needs sent south to explore more surronding terriagn for #2A and #2B, particularly to discover the ocean.

There are possible ocean locations that would result in #2A and/or #2B being absolutely horrid.

	24-06-2004 23:21									#17
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OK, sounds like a new poll will be needed after I play the turnchat and have more info on that area.

I intend to have city 2 up by the end of the weekend though (turnchat 2 gets us to settler, poll for about 2 days gets us the placement, I don;t need to schedule a time for a turnchat just for the 1-2 turns needed to build a city and get the Feudal side of things going).

	25-06-2004 01:01									#18
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I'm not so sure that new #2 is FP from the map alone. Would be easy to tell from within the game. As an Agricutural civ, we don't want to establish a city in the desert under despotism one tile from the extra food bonus.

The real Citysite # 3 IS a floodplain tile, I looked it up in the save before I suggested it originally. It has the advantage or Forested river tiles that give us shields, food, and commerce UNDEVELOPED right off the bat even before the cultural area expands.

Assuming we found cities closer to the capital later it gives that city a chance to get a head start on building before it gets moved farther down the city pecking order.

	25-06-2004 07:41									#19
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What about one tile NW of the warrior in GF's pic. That would give us access to both Oasis' tiles.

	25-06-2004 07:42									#20
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OF the two though, I like option #2 better.

	26-06-2004 01:04									#21
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I have no doubts that we will evenually build a city to give us access to the other Oasis.

Were better off spreading the wealth (Oasis) among multiple cities.

quote: Originally posted by General Locus What about one tile NW of the warrior in GF's pic. That would give us access to both Oasis' tiles.

	26-06-2004 08:37									#22
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Well maybe we are, but I don't think you can say that with complete confidence until we know more of the surrounding area......likewise, I cannot say putting both Oasis' in the same city would be the best thing until we know the lay of the land more completely....

but in the interest of getting out a 2nd city asap, I would be in favor of the 2nd spot, which is favoured by most people here anyways......