25-06-2004 05:32									#1
	Consul's Interpretation of Polls - 1863 Remove this text

In the spirit of trying a recommended idea (Monk’s) for determining/consolidating session goals and resolving poll conflicts, this is what I understand from the polls and discussions at the moment.

It is also fair to say this is what I go through internally when I collect all the Ministers' recommendations and sit down to start a session (think of them in order):

(play) (report). LOL!

1. The Explorer will head north to Two Whales, rehome there or at Cartenna, and head for dark Egyptian territory.

2. The Bead Caravel will find several Celtic cities and trade with the biggest one (or a slightly smaller one that demands Beads). Would a 3 pop difference be a good guide? Both profit and speed/time will be considered. :gold:

3. If we have any choice in the matter, contact will only be made with Celts or Sioux. I would attempt maps and/or technology. Should I try for an alliance (I doubt it is possible, but I can try)? Should I relent to any tribute demands first if they are less than 50G?

4. Building Settlers in colony cities will be preferred over growing the cities.

5. The existing Settler will continue building Road. (sweaty brow)

6. Musketeers should be built for defense where Barracks are completed (poll is still open though, and the results may change).

7. Convert “several” of the most advanced Colosseum productions to Barracks. I would take this to mean let them complete normally. Should I use any Caravan gold on the Barracks or the remaining Colosseums?

8. We will have an Apolytonia Caravan completed (assuming we have a trade good) in 8 turns. The target for this Caravan did not come up in discussion. Depending on what we learn about the Celts and where the trade goods are demanded, I will send it to Giza for a quick gain unless the Minister of Trade recommends otherwise (it is difficult to decide this right now, since we don’t know what, if any trade goods, we will get). But I will will appreciate any recommendations.

9. Conflict! One poll requests Settlers over growing cities. Another says build Barracks then Musketeers. Another says to continue building about half of the least advanced Colosseums. I am interpreting (and there is room for alternate interpretations) these to mean: A – Change production of 3 Colosseums to Barracks. B – Where Barracks are completed, build Musketeers. C – Where Colosseums are completed (with Caravan gold) build Settlers.

10. Keep Apolytonia building Caravans :gold: when there is likely to be a trade good available by completion. Otherwise, Settlers or military units.

Does this sound about right or is there something I have seriously mistaken? We shouldn't try to change poll results, but clarifications and conflict resolutions are possible.

Your most benign Consul...

	25-06-2004 07:22									#2
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Thanks for giving this a try!!

2) Celts are #1 and are likely to have some/many very large cities. At this point in the game only a few very small cities will demand beads. Pick the biggest one for best results--don't worry about demand.

3) Rusacurru is about to grow-->Rush the temple. This will get rid of the gold.

Looking at the powergraph, the Celts have overtaken the Zulus and are the strongest while we are the weakest. In this situation, I believe the Celts will grant us an alliance. Even if they say we must declare war on someone, agree. Being that we are the inferior Civ, this will NOT cause a hit to our reputation. If we get the alliance, they will likely be okay with sharing maps. If you get that far, ask for a gift. Either they will blow up OR they will give us a tech. This will be a one shot deal if experience is worth anything, so, DO NOT contact them again...at least until we deliver the camel. Oh and, don't deliver the camel until the next tech is finished or you will waste a ton of beakers.

There is a lot of risk with this; but, I think it offers the best chance of improving our prospects rapidly. It also improves the chances of our quick and bloody exit from this game. If you decide to do this--IF--you have to go for the whole package at once. I doubt you will get anywhere by doing parts of this over several turns. And did I mention that it is VERY risky??

8) The Celts offer the best trading opportunities if the boats can survive the voyage.

Monk

	25-06-2004 08:49									#3
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From Monk:

"Looking at the powergraph, the Celts have overtaken the Zulus and are the strongest while we are the weakest. In this situation, I believe the Celts will grant us an alliance. Even if they say we must declare war on someone, agree. Being that we are the inferior Civ, this will NOT cause a hit to our reputation. If we get the alliance, they will likely be okay with sharing maps. If you get that far, ask for a gift. Either they will blow up OR they will give us a tech. This will be a one shot deal if experience is worth anything, so, DO NOT contact them again...at least until we deliver the camel. Oh and, don't deliver the camel until the next tech is finished or you will waste a ton of beakers.

There is a lot of risk with this; but, I think it offers the best chance of improving our prospects rapidly. It also improves the chances of our quick and bloody exit from this game. If you decide to do this--IF--you have to go for the whole package at once. I doubt you will get anywhere by doing parts of this over several turns. And did I mention that it is VERY risky??"

-------------------

OK, here is what I think we should decide.

1. Do you think the Celts would actually grant us an alliance? I never get an alliance late in the game or when it would be helpful to me, but I’m not usually the weakest either. This is new ground for me. Let’s share any information on this possibility.

2. If they do, should I press for maps, techs, gifts, and in what order?

3. If a Celt alliance requires war, should we accept it (I would, as our requirements would be satisfied with nominal effort)? But I need to know what everyone else thinks.

4. We are already risking much. We have undefended cities, for example. We are sending Caravans by Caravels while we know there are at least Cruisers willing to sink them at first sight. I went for nearly all Colosseums in the hope we could clebrate our colony cities. I suspect we don’t have much choice but to push every possibility. But maybe I am becoming innured to risk (we have gotten away with much in past games), and I need to get more guidance from the Citizens and Ministers.

5. So, shall we take the gamble Monk suggests (only as a possibility)?

I think this is worth a couple days extra discussion.

	25-06-2004 11:11									#4
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear From Monk: 3. If a Celt alliance requires war, should we accept it (I would, as our requirements would be satisfied with nominal effort)? But I need to know what everyone else thinks.

To a large extent, my view on this question depends on who they ask us to declare war on.

I don't think we know who the Celts are at war with, and whether their opponents have any units close to us. If they ask us to declare war on someone close who could hurt us, I'd be inclined to say thanks, but no thanks.

On the other hand, in my experience, even a lengthy war with someone a long way away is not a problem. In any case, perhaps we can make peace with them fairly quickly - this would annoy our allies, but as someone pointed out, the alliance won't last forever anyway.

BTW, Are we certain that we won't take a reputation hit if they ask us to declare war on the Egyptians (with whom we have a peace treaty)?

RJM at Sleeper's

	25-06-2004 11:48									#5
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RJM,

About the AI with peace treaty/ reputation hit.... No, I am not certain of this and actually forgot about that treaty. Good catch.

The whole war thing is a wild-ass guess on my part based on the steady increase in power of the Celts. Hopefully, they will not be at war with anyone and the war problem will moot. I was trying to cover all the possible contingencies I could think of, however.

Worst case, we will be at war with the Zulu (and the Celts will have our maps). But war with the Zulu is just a matter of time anyway. The upside is we will have the Celt maps, uncovering a big chunk of the world, AND, we might get a juicy tech from them. Click your heels three times and say: Battleship, Bomber, Arty, maybe even Tanks--I know it's wishful thinking but this game is over if we don't get some big equalizer; probably over even if we do because we are so puny.

Who knows what is best to do when the ceiling is too low to punt??

Monk

	25-06-2004 12:35									#6
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cavebear,

You asked about the order IF you should happen to contact the Celts....

Peace, Ally, Maps, and lastly, beg for a gift.

If you beg before maps you may not get the chance for them.

On another point you raised. If I have not mentioned previously, celebrations will not be possible except in a very few cities because of the lack of Marketplaces. Growth will have to come the old fashion way.

Monk

	26-06-2004 05:15									#7
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Anyone we contact is sure to ask for Tribute. We probably would have to pay it to get any further with a civ. Should we pay?

Item #2 on my list is revised as follows:

2. The Bead Caravel will find several Celtic cities and trade with the largest one.

Item #3 on my list is revised as follows:

3. If we have any choice in the matter, contact will only be made with Celts or Sioux. I would attempt to establish peace, then an alliance, then request to exchange maps, and then beg for a gift if the opportunity is presented.

I still have the conflict mentioned in item #9:

9. One poll requests Settlers over growing cities. Another says build Barracks then Musketeers. Another says to continue building about half of the least advanced Colosseums. I am interpreting (and there is room for alternate interpretations) these to mean: A – Change production of 3 Colosseums to Barracks. B – Where Barracks are completed, build Musketeers. C – Where Colosseums are completed (with Caravan gold) build Settlers. I need that resolved.

I agree that celebration is unlikely without Marketplaces, but at least there is no penalty for seeing what happens a few times by playing with the Tax Rate. We probably won't have many cities large enough to try this next session anyway.

	26-06-2004 05:37									#8
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I would like to play the next session Saturday evening or Sunday (22 to 40 hours from this post). Official Minister reports/recommendations would be appreciated (emailed or posted).

I already feel I have more detailed recommendations than usual, and that is a GOOD THING. But more would be better.

	26-06-2004 10:17									#9
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Anyone we contact is sure to ask for Tribute. We probably would have to pay it to get any further with a civ. Should we pay?

I've had a couple of games where I paid a small tribute and then got back much more as a gift - no guarantee though.

quote: Originally posted by cavebear I still have the conflict mentioned in item #9: 9. One poll requests Settlers over growing cities. Another says build Barracks then Musketeers. Another says to continue building about half of the least advanced Colosseums. I am interpreting (and there is room for alternate interpretations) these to mean: A – Change production of 3 Colosseums to Barracks. B – Where Barracks are completed, build Musketeers. C – Where Colosseums are completed (with Caravan gold) build Settlers. I need that resolved.

I think if you can end up with at least one colosseum, at least one new settler and a barracks in at least one city, you will have met most people's minimum requirements. After that how you balance the rest is up to you.

RJM at Sleeper's

	26-06-2004 11:43									#10
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Thanks for the information from your past games. It helps.

I'll hope to get more out of the next session than a Colosseum, a Setler, and a Barracks, but it is good to know where the expectations are.