25-06-2004 22:57									#1
	Frenzy AI revisited (v 2.1) Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

A long time ago Pedrunn posted a revised version of "Frenzy AI". It contains the major improvement of determining the AI's 'worst enemy' by diplomatic regard rather than minimal distance to the target . As this version has been posted rather humbly in a thread dealing with something different (IIRC) it seems not having been noticed too well. However - I did what I consider some additional tweaking (or messing up ) the code and added another function: 'TaskOne: Recapture'.

here it is for testing

It doesn't require anything but being #include(d) at the bottom of script.slc (or ***_script.slc for most of the Mods around except for the Super Apolyton Pack: there it needs to be #include(d) in APOL_main.slc to replace APOL_frenzy.slc). One additional note that can also be found in the comments: As a bunch of "terrain and unit checking functions" is taken from BetterAI/GoodMod you need to be careful not to interfere with existing functions if you wish to use Frenzy 2.1 together with BetterAI/GoodMod.

The script throws SLIC-errors with DebucSlic=Yes caused by IsUnderseaCity(), so you need to change DebugSlic to 'No' in userprofile.txt. The error message does not indicate inappropriate use of the function, but buggyness of the debugger .

Last edited by BureauBert on 30-06-2004 at 23:27

	01-07-2004 00:44									#2
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This is not a reply to self but a reply to Solver's question in the other thread :

quote: Bert, how safe do you imagine is that Frenzy code? That is, does it provide a real improvement to AI (as intended and, to a degree, it worked), but without the problem of never going to peace once it attacks?

In terms of stacking and moving armies towards a selected enemy's cities it does basically the same as Frenzy 1.x, Pedrunn also added a similar navy code. The major improvement Pedrunn introduced is that the AI will select it's 'worst enemy' by diplomatic regard and it will not simply move its 'frenzy armies' towards the nearest HUMAN's cities. More detailed: Basically the player with the lowest effective regard will be an AI's worst enemy, if the regard towards all 'regular' civs is greater than 500 (this could probably be tweaked - 'hot war' level is 100) good old barbs will be the AI's worst enemy. The AI will then stack and move their frenzy armies (navies) towards their worst enemy's MostAtRiskCity. The AI will re-select their worst enemy and re-task their armies each turn. Therefore they will stop throwing their armies against another player's targets if this player could manage to increase his regard by diplomatic means, they will attack their new 'worst enemy's' targets instead (the barbs if all other players are above 500 in regard).

quote: Another thing I'm pondering is city attack focus, sometimes maybe the AI hesitates a bit in attacking cities...

Another improvement (also by Pedrunn, he really merits the main credit for this script - I am more or less just republishing it): The AI's 'frenzy armies' will not only attack cities but also other armies/units they encounter on their way.
An additional experiment added by myself: TaskOne: Recapture. If a city is taken (and is not an undersea city, that's what throws those unnecessary SLIC-errors) the AI will do it's best to recapture that city, specially if the city has been the capital.

When I had nearly all SLIC working for my over-SLIC'ed modding project I had the impression that this script works pretty well. At least I could see AI's armies consequently attacking not only myself but other AI's, too. And I am pretty sure they did it with their 'frenzy armies' since they threw one, two, three armies against one of their 'worst enemy's' cities and these armies continued moving towards another of their 'worst enemy's' cities once they had conquered a city.

One problem is that a frenzy army stays 'frenzy' as long as it stays valid (alive) and continues moving towards the next target selected. Therefore the conquering frenzy army will not garrison the conquered city and it will transform from a 'frenzy' to a 'harakiri'-army by the time. This is an aspect I should eventually take care of.

But actually in my project it is somtimes difficult to tell which AI-AID-script does exactly what since I am aiming to collect, modify and integrate into a consistent framework most of the well-known scripts around (apart from adding some own stuff eventually ). As for AI tactics I am among others also using Martin Gühmann's BetterAI code and Locutus' ClearOrders script experimenting with applying different tactical concepts during different stages of the game resp. in different situations. I have listed all scripts I am trying to integrate so far here .

Concerning the 'frenzy'-part: My idea is using this tactics in later stages of the game when more units are around and the AI already manages to stack them thanks to BetterAI. In this situation the 'frenzy' armies should really just form the most efficient conquering forces to maintain major campaigns against selected targets. With more armies around as 'backup forces' e.g. the problem of 'frenzy' armies not caring for keeping the conquered cities should become somewhat less important (but this aspect should be covered in a 2.3-version nonetheless).

For the moment I'd like to get the present version out of beta-stage and therefore I'd be glad if more people would like to test this script since I believe that it has its merits and can still be improved and used in some context with other AI-tactics.

	01-07-2004 01:31									#3
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quote: Originally posted by BureauBert One problem is that a frenzy army stays 'frenzy' as long as it stays valid (alive) and continues moving towards the next target selected. Therefore the conquering frenzy army will not garrison the conquered city and it will transform from a 'frenzy' to a 'harakiri'-army by the time. This is an aspect I should eventually take care of.

And this is the greatest flaw of Frenzy as it stands now.

I'll be interested in seeing how this code plays once this issue is fixed. I tend to like the aspect of AI forces generally focused on the human player, because it is a challange. From what I have seen in Cradle games (using the old Frenzy) the AI will often engage in AI/AI battles and cities will trade hands even when there are no human cities in the area.

Still this looks promising, especially in regards to getting the AI to have a more focused military expansion program.

	01-07-2004 01:51									#4
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I'm going to test that, sounds very good. I have had a situation last night when I took two English cities, but they had far larger military. OK, they eliminated my attack force, put 40 Tanks outside Liverpool, and only attacked it with its two defensive units several turns later...

Anyway, an AI that retakes cities is always better. And while I agree with Hex that focusing on human player gives the challenge, but I really dislike it when the AI does so. It doesn't give the same feeling when AIs gang up on you - it's so Civ2, when you play a game against n AI civs. I want to play a game where the AIs actually fight among themsleves as well, so I certainly will love increased AI focus on any enemy.

While waiting for 2.3... this will be a welcome addition to my playtesting games .

	02-07-2004 21:02									#5
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Something I need to post, my two desires for an AI script. Just wishes, but can't resist posting .

1. Air unit stacking. Sometimes the AI will attack your air units with his air units, or your ships with planes, but it doesn't seem to stack Bombers with other Bombers or other planes. This shouldn' be *too* hard to implement.
2. Hard to implement, but a definite wish - invasions overseas. AI does build and send transport ships, that's good. Sometimes it sends empty ships - what for? And sometimes it won't load em with proper units, like sending just 1 cavalry in a troop ship. Another time he will do it fine and send 5 Tanks. Anyway, a desire for a script that would let AI coordinate assaults overseas would be great. Note that it has some of that funcionality with Martin's AI files, but he never published another of the AI scripts he was working for.

	02-07-2004 23:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Anyway, a desire for a script that would let AI coordinate assaults overseas would be great. Note that it has some of that funcionality with Martin's AI files, but he never published another of the AI scripts he was working for.

So should I post it? The script work very well if the AI should just conquer its continent, of course it prevents the AI of conquering more cities then its government can support. It makes the AI to take undefended cities. Well for the air units I took Peter's air units script.

The only problem is that the cross water invasion stuff doesn't work as supposed, I get the units into the ships but my way to figure out the cargo size doesn't work and at that time the source code was released and I had and still have to do other things as well.

-Martin

	03-07-2004 00:01									#7
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I definitely thing you should post it. In my spare time, I am playtesting the game with the latest build, and I always want a good AI . Besides, modern age is my favorite part of the game, and that's where the ability to stack air units or launch a surprise attack with even one troop ship is crucial.

Currently, if no AI is on my landmass, I know I'm safe in modren even with one Infantryman in each city - the AI just won't drop many forces.

What's your problem exactly with cargo size? You get the units in ships and what? You can't determine if it's full, or? Hmm, maybe we need a CargoSize() SLIC function added .

Anyway, I'd be glad if you posted the script so I could add it to my playtest config.

	03-07-2004 00:12									#8
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And something I need to say on what just happened.

I nuked an AI city, and got three nukes in return, through MAD. That was great. And I was just wondering why some of AI nukes are sitting in cities doing nothing... either a good nuke script somewhere, or a built-in function...

	03-07-2004 01:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Solver And something I need to say on what just happened. I nuked an AI city, and got three nukes in return, through MAD. That was great. And I was just wondering why some of AI nukes are sitting in cities doing nothing... either a good nuke script somewhere, or a built-in function...

This should answer it:

quote: strategies.txt NuclearFirstStrike: Disabled NuclearTargeting: Enabled

quote: Originally posted by Solver What's your problem exactly with cargo size? You get the units in ships and what? You can't determine if it's full, or? Hmm, maybe we need a CargoSize() SLIC function added.

My current hack function doesn't work therefore the ships are considered as empty and in that case the script tries to keep the AI's ships at its coast to fill them with units.

-Martin

	03-07-2004 02:31									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think you should post the script nonetheless. Then, someone like BureauBert might be able to improve on it - an amphibious invasion script would be a fantastic thing.

	03-07-2004 02:49									#11
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Oh there, I went to the source and wanted to add functions to figure out how many units a transport is carrying, and noticed that you already have implemented those .

That definitely means that you got to release the script, and with some editing it will do what it's supposed to. Especially if it's ready in everything except being able to tell how many units are carried.

	03-07-2004 02:59									#12
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Well after the part sending the ships to the target I don't know whether the ships can reach teh target and I don't know either if the ships are at their target the units inside the ship are placed at the land. So far in the script testing I had to test every peice of code to make sure that it does what I want it should do.

Well I also added some other things to the game to reduce the complexity of the script for instance a GetContinentID function and I also added the government array by Peter to make it a little bit easier to figure out the current government of the player, and also a cargo capacity function for the ships and another cargo left function, and also some globals to know how many players in the game are.

-Martin

	03-07-2004 03:09									#13
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Now, bear in mind that I haven't modded CtP2... but are the parts you describe there necessary at all? I mean, the current CtP2 AI (at least with other mods) certainly does have troop ships that will reach your continent, and they will unload as well. The problem is that most ships are empty or loaded with 1-2 units - a problem that your script seems to address among other things.

So to summarize - once ships are loaded and sent (your script), shouldn't the already existing AI take over anyway to get to wherever it's going and unload?

Just post the script . Someone will certainly improve it at some point, and I'll add it to my CtP installation for testing anyway.

	04-07-2004 01:09									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Now, bear in mind that I haven't modded CtP2... but are the parts you describe there necessary at all? I mean, the current CtP2 AI (at least with other mods) certainly does have troop ships that will reach your continent, and they will unload as well. The problem is that most ships are empty or loaded with 1-2 units - a problem that your script seems to address among other things. So to summarize - once ships are loaded and sent (your script), shouldn't the already existing AI take over anyway to get to wherever it's going and unload?

The problem is that the script should send the ships when they are full, and I cannot determine this yet. The result is that the ships are not send but are kept at the coastline of the attacking civilization, so you can go to that coast with your battle ships and make that the enemy transports sink before they can reach your coast. Another feature of this script is to move the ships to the enemy's coast in a group and unload them at the same time, so that you have the AI has the full power on the other continent.

-Martin

	04-07-2004 01:22									#15
	Put an end to popups!

OK, that all sounds good. Determening when the ships are full is easy with the new SLIC functions, so I can't see why wouldn't you post the script so someone could improve it and get it it completed, like Bert, as said!

Come on, do so .

	04-07-2004 23:50									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Solver OK, that all sounds good. Determening when the ships are full is easy with the new SLIC functions, so I can't see why wouldn't you post the script so someone could improve it and get it it completed, like Bert, as said! Come on, do so .

You should give me some time to put it together.

However it is some kind of GoodMod, something beyond version 1.0. The files are for CTP2 v. 1.1 Activisions original patch, therefore I did not removed the soundfix slic and moved it into the tileimp.txt, terrain.txt is also the original version, and of course a lot of strings for the playtest version are missing. const.txt should need some modification to make it work with our playtest version. I tweaked a little bit the unit.txt so that is now true tanks != super weapon. The government determination code doesn't work without a modified govern.txt, the strategies.slc needs an modified strategies.txt but it keeps the AI from settleing and conquering when it has gone over the city limit. I didn't check if I disabled frenzy and player1's pw cheat, frenzy and pwcheat should be disabled and I think the modifications are only in place for GoodMod for ApolytonPack, so don't expect a strong AI when using the MedPack version, and of course it is not tested that I include all the necessary files.

And another thing if you want to use it with the playtest version. Peter messed around with the ConsiderNewProposal function therefore the argument list that is used in Diplomod doesn't match anymore with the argument list by our playtest version.

And finally the pack comes without a readme and of course you are on your own.

-Martin

GM11A.zip

	05-07-2004 02:01									#17
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Wow, that's a whole mod in there. I imagined it would be only a SLIC script file, like Frenzy.

Let's see if an idiot without modding experience like me can get it to work even .

And I really hope that Bert will also decide to poke around with the file and maybe bring it to the conclusion it needs.

Thanks, Martin .


Edit: A question - does this thing, otherwise, work as GoodMod? That is, can I unpack this atop of CtP2+SAP2 after a clean install?

	05-07-2004 21:28									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Wow, that's a whole mod in there. I imagined it would be only a SLIC script file, like Frenzy.

Well that would be preferable, but remember CTP2 v.1.1 has no way to figure out the current government of a player. Therefore I used these to figure out the players government salery, food and workday level. The disadvantage of this is that these three values must be unique for each government you have in the database. In comparison to Dale's way I think it is a cleaner solution.

For the air units I used a solution by Peter I just modified one function to get rid of the PowerPoint system. So Why adding it to my script if it is already there.

And another aspect is formed by the AI strategies. I added some code that reduces the settling activity and conquering activity, when the AI is over the city limit.

quote: Originally posted by Solver Let's see if an idiot without modding experience like me can get it to work even . And I really hope that Bert will also decide to poke around with the file and maybe bring it to the conclusion it needs. Thanks, Martin . [QUOTE] Originally posted by Solver Edit: A question - does this thing, otherwise, work as GoodMod? That is, can I unpack this atop of CtP2+SAP2 after a clean install?

It is designed for GoodMod and without some modifications it doesn't work, you need the govern.txt from GoodMod. And also the Ai strategy change should also be done, it doesn't make any sense when the script is in non conquering mode while the AI's strategy is still in conquering and settling mode. Otherwise you have to include the script into the Apolyton APOL_script.slc and of course make sure that the script is included int the according XXX_script.slc of the version of GoodMod you are currently using. I can tell you at least that it is not part of the MedPack version.

-Martin

	06-07-2004 01:01									#19
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Sorry for my absence, I am not feeling very productive these days due to the strange weather here in Vienna
But I've managed to download Martin's latest developments and take a brief look at them. As far as I can see most of the SLIC is basically already present in GoodMod/BetterAI.
The most interesting new SLIC file is of course the *big huge* MG_Functions.slc with loads of extremely interesting functions that would certainly be useful as a basis for the development of tactical concepts. Though some things already are/will probably be integrated into the source code (by Martin himself ) like governments or continent-id's (at least I vaguely remember having read about it in the altered source files thread) there still remain lots of "terrain, city, unit etc."-checking functions that should IMHO remain user-defined since different modders might have different ideas about what e.g. IsGoodLandForSettling().
Nonetheless when I put together that "Common functions file" for my project I came up with the idea of putting together something like an "Apolyton Common SLIC Library" similar to the "Apolyton Tile File", which contains the most elaborate, efficient, working, "clean" ... versions of all those functions every serious modding project tends to need at some point . This would be some organized way of stealing from each other and would prevent the reinvention of the wheel due to ignorance of existing solutions.
I haven't yet explored all of the Call To Conquest SLIC (Martin seems having done so) but I am sure it contains some interesting tactical concepts, too.
As for military strategy and tactics (and this is the original topic of this thread, somehow ) two aspects seem most important to me:

1. This one isn't new but needs to be mentioned: The AI's military strategy needs to be backed by some general idea of the geographical, economic and diplomatic/"political" situation. CTC's approach as far as I have seen in the SLIC files is mainly "geographical threat". What I have seen so far from Martin's new code suggests that "geographical awareness" is a major concern to him, too. The same goes for myself, I have been experimenting so far in favoring a peaceful but well defended, exploring, settling and "building" AI that realizes when it has reached the limits of peaceful development and then seriously considers and undertakes military action. Well it's a matter of fact that I like full-fledged warfare (with knights or tanks, that doesn't really matter, though I do prefer tanks ) when I can see some rationality in being attacked or having to attack another player, but I dislike at least as much having to struggle around with some spearmen for centuries for no other apparent reason but sharing a continent with an AI. I really hate AI's for attacking me restlessly while not settling on the huge landmass still waiting for them.
   
2. The second one hasn't yet been mentioned too often: Concerning military tactics and the AI's concept in general I think it's not only strength (in terms of production and loads of 12-stacks) but also variety of tactics that makes the AI an interesting and challenging opponent to the HUMAN. That's why I would like to experiment with applying as many tactical concepts as possible (each one a good concept per se regarding e.g. "land army movement", "naval tactics" and "air tactics") in different situations, chosen by some rationality that still needs to be developed at the "backend" of let's say economic, political ... choices but also somewhat "randomly", so that the HUMAN player cannot entirely predict the AI's next steps (which used to be the major "bug" with good old Frenzy as far as I am concerned: You just knew they would show up next to your closest city with a 12-stack as soon as they had built the 12 extra units).
   

What I am experimenting with so far is introducing different "modes" for the AI depending on their geographical, (scientifical, diplomatical, economical) situation and accordingly applying different military (but also diplomacy- and settling-) concepts (i.e. scripts). What I have so far ist still a pretty rough concept trying to integrate what we have so far and I got stuck with getting that working at all, but if the Apolyton Edition lets me I am willing to continue and some day refine this concept. When as many good, particular concepts as possible are in a Mod you can use BetterAI to make them stack their armies, keep them off blocking each other and the roads, load their ships etc., you can use (a continuously improved version of) Frenzy AI to make them launch a major military campaign when needed (my TaskNumberOne-function is one attempt in this direction, in the context of a complex Mod additional uses for "Frenzy" armies could be thought of) - and you can use other concepts to make them use their armies differently when needed or just for the sake of variety. The same goes for different navy and air force concepts.

Interesting enough that Martin came up with a kind of "AI-modes", too. Well finally, apart from different preferences in many regards we all stumble across the same conceptual "nodes". So we are still on the way to create "the best of all worlds", and when we have it, everybody will Mod it to his taste again .

	06-07-2004 02:24									#20
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Wow that's insightful . You post many things that are good in perspective, but I'd like to repeat that, even if the AI would only be taught to invade other landmasses, I would already be happier. It's simple things like this that make the Civ 3 AI competetive - it will regularly send Transports to your landmass to harass you with troops.

And somehow, when playing CtP2 now, I don't notice the effect of AIs declaring just for the sake of it, probably because of using the fixed Frenzy code. Now, if you're nice to the AI and do some diplomacy, you can very well coexist on one landmass. It's better to have an army, but no longer you'll be attacked ridicilously.

	07-07-2004 19:08									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by BureauBert As far as I can see most of the SLIC is basically already present in GoodMod/BetterAI.

Not quite true. MG_BetterAI.slc uses now a lot of stuff from MG_Functions.slc. These slic functions are just put into a libary. Most of the functions in MG_BetterAI.slc are obsolete, and I was going to remove them. Who needs functions like IsLandSettler if one has such a nice function by Peter Triggs that can determine the unit's type. However I modified this function to get rid of the PowerPoints system that allows more mod indepence.

quote: Originally posted by BureauBert Though some things already are/will probably be integrated into the source code (by Martin himself ) like governments or continent-id's (at least I vaguely remember having read about it in the altered source files thread)

Actual Peter did the government field for the player array.

quote: Originally posted by BureauBert there still remain lots of "terrain, city, unit etc."-checking functions that should IMHO remain user-defined since different modders might have different ideas about what e.g. IsGoodLandForSettling().

That's actual defined by the terrain values that we cannot access by slic so far.

quote: Originally posted by BureauBert The same goes for myself, I have been experimenting so far in favoring a peaceful but well defended, exploring, settling and "building" AI that realizes when it has reached the limits of peaceful development and then seriously considers and undertakes military action. Well it's a matter of fact that I like full-fledged warfare (with knights or tanks, that doesn't really matter, though I do prefer tanks ) when I can see some rationality in being attacked or having to attack another player, but I dislike at least as much having to struggle around with some spearmen for centuries for no other apparent reason but sharing a continent with an AI. I really hate AI's for attacking me restlessly while not settling on the huge landmass still waiting for them.

The settling priority is defined in strategies.txt you just need to set the settling priority very high and the map will be filled with AI cities.

Well for diplomacy I came to the conclusion that if the human player manages to keep an peace treaty with the AI that the human player has a lot of time to arm up and beat the AI then. Maybe it should be easier to achieve piece with my script, because with my script the AI won't be helpless if you declare war on it.

-Martin

	07-07-2004 23:15									#22
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For bureaucratic reasons (keeping this thread on topic) I opened a new thread to discuss the settling issue, which I think merits a thread of its own : Controlling Settlers?

Last edited by BureauBert on 08-07-2004 at 01:21