23-07-2004 18:48									#31
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Just out of interest, how do you usually go wrt terraforming, Googlie? I've never seen that effective a style without condensors. I usually use Archaic's style, of up to 6 boreholes, and crawling up to 6 condensors for nuts.

	23-07-2004 20:27									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (and if so, we should build a laser infantryman soon thereafter then upgrade our rovers to 2-1-2's, all the more impressive to threaten Yang with when we finally meet him)

IIRC laser rovers cost as many as laser infantry, so we could build a commando (+) laser rover in SC2, and monolith-upgrade it to elite immediately, for a 3-1.5-3 unit.

quote: Do we need a formal poll, or are we still running this early on with decisions made by an "informed quorum" of the Junta?

Since Zeiter said he favoured SocPsych and you AppPhys, I thought I'd post a poll to get some more opinions.

	24-07-2004 05:50									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Just out of interest, how do you usually go wrt terraforming

I pretty much forest everything on land (except nut specials- unless on arid land) and seakelp/tidal harness
the offshore tiles, get Tree Farms and Hybrids by midgame, then throw up satellites whenever I can't think of anything else for a base to produce

I'll try for a couple of boreholes per base, and nearly always manage to get a ten or 12 tiled energy farm crawling to my SCC

Hab domes come too late in the game to make much of a difference, so I generally only have a handful of bases that ever get to beyond size 20, and they are usually coastal bases

I follow that route playing most factions, except maybe the Gaians or Cult, where I might purposely refungus after I get the nuts-from-fungus techs

	19-09-2004 21:56									#34
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We'll get NonlMath MY 2138. Normally our next research choices should be:

• Progenitor Psych
  
• Biogenetics
  
• Industrial Base
  
• Social Psych

If we plan to steal lots of techs from other factions, it hardly matters what we pick, but you never know. So what to pick?

	20-10-2004 11:09									#35
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This is maybe the appropriate thread to reset our beelines:

Right now we are researching Doc Initiative (6 years, in 2149). We can start the MCC that year - will we finish it same turn? (2 AA"s and, maybe, 2 crawlers)

A whole bunch of "ifs" determine our next choices (and prolly we'll be in the "next tech in 15 years" or so range):

If we manage to steal HEC from Lal, then we'll see Synth Fossil Fuels as a choice (missiles, fungiformers, prereq for Doc Air)

If we manage to steal Doc Loyalty from Yang, we'll see Int Int as a choice (+Morale, nonlethal police, CDF).

If we don't trade for them/steal them, we'll see our choices cluttered by Prog Psych, Social Psych, Polysoft, Industrial Economics, Field Modulation, Opticals, etc (you get the picturs)

It'd be neat to beeline to Pre Sentient Algorithms, and snag the HSA - that way we'd be immune to probe actions (axcept maybe the Angels, with their automatic Enhanced Algorithmics) and to others mind-controlling their bases back that we have captured. But that would entail getting Int Int and Cyberethics on the one side and Polysoft, Opticals and AMA on the other.

So far we've been fortunate in executing almost flawlessly the strategy we outlined at the beginning (before the game was even set up!!) Let's hope our "luck" continues!

	21-10-2004 10:04									#36
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Wow. I forgaot all about this thread (!).

I read now...

	21-10-2004 10:29									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I pretty much forest everything on land (except nut specials- unless on arid land) and seakelp/tidal harness the offshore tiles, get Tree Farms and Hybrids by midgame, then throw up satellites whenever I can't think of anything else for a base to produce

Well. Lookie this!
So why are you (not just you, but you know what I mean) farming in this game?

quote: I'll try for a couple of boreholes per base, and nearly always manage to get a ten or 12 tiled energy farm crawling to my SCC

Boreholes yea, but the solar park has become increasingly untenable with the quality of players over the years. Too vulnerable to suicide chopper strikes. Do you not find?

quote: Hab domes come too late in the game to make much of a difference, so I generally only have a handful of bases that ever get to beyond size 20, and they are usually coastal bases

I find this amazing. But then again, haven't been in as many games as you. The only game I can remember being in with hab-domes was one where no one was allowed to attack another human controled faction.

quote: I follow that route playing most factions, except maybe the Gaians or Cult, where I might purposely refungus after I get the nuts-from-fungus techs

That's tough choice to make. Especially when you've spent nearly all game; roading, leveling, foresting every tile. By this time, my formers are just concentrating on borehole drilling.

	21-10-2004 10:37									#38
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader Well. Lookie this! So why are you (not just you, but you know what I mean) farming in this game?

Simple - got outvoted (actually, I've learned a lot about squeezing early growth from careful utilization of tiles. I never used to bother differentiating between rolling and rainy and rolling and moist tiles - for me the rule of thumb was "under 500 meters, forest regardless, over 500, farm and solar" (unless arid, of course - then it got a forest too)

quote: Boreholes yea, but the solar park has become increasingly untenable with the quality of players over the years. Too vulnerable to suicide chopper strikes. Do you not find?

Not if you protect it. A sensor, bunkers and AAA best-armor units interspersed around the perimeter can hold off most choppers (or make it not worth their while trying

	21-10-2004 11:22									#39
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In that case: I'll start complaining about the farming again...

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Not if you protect it. A sensor, bunkers and AAA best-armor units interspersed around the perimeter can hold off most choppers (or make it not worth their while trying

That takes a lot of effort to do. I just can't commit all those resources and time to something like that. I'd rather put it towards hurting the opposition. I've built one bunker - once! (and one airbase - once!).


TOP SECRET:

All you have to do is blow a hole through the defensive perimeter. Choppers / airplanes aren't affected by ZOC's. Either suicide a couple of a/c on the unit, or self-destruct a missile/specific a/c. Then just fly in and blow everything away...

	21-10-2004 18:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader TOP SECRET: All you have to do is blow a hole through the defensive perimeter. Choppers / airplanes aren't affected by ZOC's. Either suicide a couple of a/c on the unit, or self-destruct a missile/specific a/c. Then just fly in and blow everything away...

Funny, but no-one seems to think it's worth the while (maybe 'cos it takes around 3 or 4 fusion elite shard choppers [strength 33, derived from 13 (basic weapon) * 1.5 (elite) * 2(fusion powered)] to get past 1 bunkered, sensored, elite, 8-armor AAA fusion defender whose defense is 128 [derived from 8 (basic)*1.5 (Elite)*1.5 (bunker)*2(sensor)*2(AAA tracking)*2 (Fusion)]

Would you take that trade?

Now, I agree, power sats are great too, but there is a limit as to how effective they are (base population dictates how much of a contribution they can make, and usually for me - pre hab domes, that'll be 14, thus giving 7 energy to that base. A single crawler can be yielding 8 energy in a poorly designed energy park and is a lot more expendable then a power satellite

	22-10-2004 05:05									#41
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No, I wouldn't take that trade in straight combat. But I would self destruct 2 units to get rid of the blocker. Then I'd fly through the hole and rampage the crawlers inside the compound. But this is all hypothetical.

Shame on the people who let you get such defences up in the first place!

	22-10-2004 12:06									#42
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Here's a really good post, for anyone who wants to know what can happen in a multi-player game...

MP Woes Post

	23-10-2004 01:24									#43
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I think our next tech to research should be Inertial Damping. it sounds really cool:

quote: extracted from blurbsx.txt ##Inertial Damping #TECH24 Until now the battle had been proceeding smoothly: the enemy was outflanked and had been driven from the reactor housing. But against the reactor itself the matter cannon were strangely ineffective. Rounds simply . . . stopped. In mid-air. ^ ^ -- Col. Corazon Santiago, ^ "A Tactical History of Sparta"

	23-10-2004 02:53									#44
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Problem with thise, is that they tend to have a tendency of always going off line as soon as your sheilds absorb the third hit.

	23-10-2004 02:56									#45
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No problem then: Spartans never get shot even once!
Research it I say!

	24-10-2004 01:36									#46
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I remember reading somewhere that Googlie proposed to offer the Angels a SocPsych<->Gene Splicing deal instead of IndEcon<->Gene Splicing. That would give us the prerequisite for DocLoy, and, one step later, Intellectual Integrity. Googlie consider that tech very useful for the Citizen's Defence Force. On the other side Krysia's Krusader did not consider the CDF so useful.

I can't find anymore where this was originally written, but I'll reply here in the interest of reducing chaos and keeping discussions in the thread where they belong: in this case tech beeline.

Anyway, the reply I wanted to add was that IntInt is also useful for the Spartans for other stuff besides the CDF. Namely non-lethal methods (more useful for the Spartans than for the other factions because of our +1 Police SE) and high morale (to get that last needed morale level for elite units). Besides that it's also a prerequisite for Cyberethics, which leads to Knowledge SE Values. As we can't run Wealth, this is the next best choice for us in peacetime.

That being said, I would equally support going for a Environmental Economics b-line (tree farms & 3+ energy) than for a IntInt b-line.

	24-10-2004 02:58									#47
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If the concensus of the Junta is that the CDF isn't worth poursuing, I'll drop championing it (I'll just say "I told you so" whern the Hive overrun us)

If we decide it's not worth while it'll certainly give us a lot more flexibilty for tech choices after we get Doc Init in 2149/2150 (eg, HEC, which we'll then steal from Lal and get a partially researched next tech after that). It'd mean we don't need to concern ourselves with Doc Loyalty and a possible war with Yang when we're not ready (no perimeter defenses )

	24-10-2004 05:38									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie If the concensus of the Junta is that the CDF isn't worth poursuing, I'll drop championing it (I'll just say "I told you so" whern the Hive overrun us)

If this was a normal PBEM I'd tend to agree with KK regarding the importance of CDF.
But this is a game with a special rule: choppers can't attack bases! This rule has never been tested before, so it's unsure what effects this will have on combat strategy. But I assume it means it will be easier to defend against air attacks by building lots of SAM noodles and choppers. This in turn would make land combat more important I assume, and especially marine invasions on coastal bases (thus the MCC also increases in value). Land combat more important, means CDF more important as far as I can see.

So if we could make a grab for the CDF, I think it could be worth it.

	25-10-2004 02:37									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac If this was a normal PBEM I'd tend to agree with KK regarding the importance of CDF. But this is a game with a special rule: choppers can't attack bases!

Oh crap! Yea, that's true. I forgat all about that. And I was asking about it before myself, in another thread somewhere...


Perhaps I should re-evaluate my thinking concerning the CDF...
Gimme a day or two.

quote: This in turn would make land combat more important I assume, and especially marine invasions on coastal bases (thus the MCC also increases in value).

Here; I'm not convinced about the MCC (yet).


See! That's what's so great about having mpre than one head doing the thinking.

	03-11-2004 05:07									#50
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After all these techs we're about to require, these are the choices we'll have MY 2148 after researching DocIni:

Attachment: techchoice2148.jpg
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	03-11-2004 22:11									#51
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I still haven't fathomed out the chart's interpretation.

Does the above indicate that we'll be given just 3 choices (the yellow ones)? - or the 8 orange ones?

	04-11-2004 18:43									#52
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The three yellow choices are the ones we'll get.
If we'd acquire one more tech, the number in the "mod 3" column would increase by one (with 2 changing to 0).
The techs that have "0" besides them are not available for choice (except CentEmp in this case, but that's because it's first in the list, and to ensure there's always at least one tech for choice).
This means if we'd acquire one more tech after DocIni, only PolySoft would be unavailable, while we could pick all the others.

	07-11-2004 22:52									#53
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Dunno if this is the appropriate place, but it's as good as any.

(In business, a few years ago, there was much excitement around the idea of a Corporate "BHAG - Big, Hairy, Aggressive Goal" such as Merck's "Rid the world of disease" or Walmart's "Shopkeepers to the World")

We can articulate a "BHAG" for an Angels - Gaian - Sparta alliance:

Last edited by Googlie on 08-11-2004 at 05:26