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Skanky Burns
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Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
I thought I'd already give my first thoughts about our possible research direction.
For most factions the choice is simple: research Centauri Ecology and then race as soon as possible to Industrial Automation. Because of the likely circumstances in this game I'd suggest a slightly different start though.
Two of our opponents will most likely be the Morganites (who have IndBase) and the Data Angels (who have InfoNets and PlaNets). So if we just do like them and try to research to IndAut ourselves we'll be way behind.
Therefore I'd suggest that after we have researched CentEcol we first research Doctrine: Flexibility. We already have the prerequisite tech Doctrine: Mobility, so it shouldn't take too long. Then when we got DocFlex, we should build some gun foils. Their task should be to explore and find other factions, hopefully Morgan and Angels. If they are friendly to us, they'll hopefully be willing to trade the prerequisites of IndAut to us in exchange for the valuable tech of DocFlex, and we won't be left behind. :-)
Just in case they refuse to trade though, probably after we get DocFlex we'd better start researching to PlaNets ourselves, so that if necessary we can build probes to obtain IndAut by other means...
How does that sound as an initial plan? :-) |
quote:
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
So we grab Centauri Ecology first and then try to get ships to contact others with asap? Sounds good, although it will require us to have sea bases by then. |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Sounds like we could also set ourselves up for an early rush as well.
We really should have probes tho' before any actions. |
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Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Sounds like a good plan, and, yes, we should get ourselves some probes before we try and attack anyone. |
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
I'm wondering, how early do you define an "early rush"?
Is that before or after we acquire IndAut and build some crawlers, and is that before or after we acquire EthCalc and do some popbooming?
The reason why I ask: In the previous ACDG we as the Consciousness conquered the Pirates. However we started a military build-up to achieve that goal even before we had many crawlers or before we had done any popbooming (though that had become more or less impossible at that time). As a consequence it took us a decade to build the forces to win the war. Other factions used that time however to build more crawlers and prepare for popbooming. As a result at the end of the war our empire had more than doubled in size and we gained many techs, but the other factions had used that time to grow on their own even more. :-s So therefore my question: in general how much economic build-up should we do ourselves before starting to think about attacking someone? Before or after a crawler build-up and/or popboom? |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Depends on proximity to nearest neighbor I would say. Lets survey the territory first and then decide. Centauri ecology and then Flex is viable and doesn't detour us too far in case we want to vere back to a builderish role. I agree tho' if we try to play builder likely we'll get toasted by the Morgies and or Gaians in the tech game.
My vote after these two is beeline to planetary nets. Then we can decide to go get weapons or crawlers depending on what we find by scouting. |
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
I completely agree! |
quote:
Originally posted by SgtSlick
I don't think we need to pop boom, we should do skirmishes around the time of crawlers. That is, once we get like 1 crawler per base slip in a rover per base and a few foils and just take out a couple of coastal cities. Is StealTech when take over bases on??
If it is, this is espeically a good idea. Furthermore, i think it is in our interest to do this if we don't have a neighbour. If we do have a neighbour, i suggest build all out 4-1-2's and take them out so they become our *****. This way we have a chance to keep up with morg's in tech game, and have extra votes in council etc.
If we don't have AI neighbour and its human... just KILL KILL KILL... STEAL STEAL STEAL!
If neither, then we do what i first suggested, 3 foils 6 rovers and take out 2 coastal cities of morgans i reckon. plus if we can take 4 probes with us, thats 3 free techs from the undefended cities as we beat them up, and an infiltrator.... |
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
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So, were going to get Centauri Ecology next turn, and will switch to Doc Flex, then beeline to Planetary Networks thereafter.
(This, btw, is endorsed by Vel if we are playing Sparta as a Hybrid, which I think our poll favoured. See link here)
But if we are going for early probe foils, then we need to seriously explore to the southwest of Sparta Command (where we uncovered what could be a shoreline or maybe just a lake) as well as to the East of Sparta Command and to the north of Santiago Citadel (assuming that there is water round the northern pole, or that our landmass up there eventually meets water)
This early, should we even be thinking of the Virtual World?
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Zeiter
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Right now, I just don't see the benefits of going with doc:flex right now. We haven't found a substantial body of water yet. One of the things I most hate is when I come across a shoreline, build a base there, and build a foil there to explore, and it turns out it's only a small little lake!
What kind of SE settings do we want early on? My vote would be for running planned, and if we are going to do that, we need to head towards plan nets.
If we want to go for the early popboom strategy, then we need to run planned anyway, so for that we could go infonets --> plannets --> social psych --> then go for ethical calculus and gene splicing.
Either way, I see going with plan nets as the best solution.
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Zeiter
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I wonder if there is any way to incorporate Jamski's quote into a newspaper story for the next paper.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
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And at some point we should prioritize the SP's we want (much like the Hive-Drones did in the last game) and tech-stream towards them
eg, is the Maritime COntrol Center a must for us? (I'd say. "yes", and it's interesting that the attendant quote for that SP is from Santiago)
Do we care about any of the others?
I'd say that realistically, much as we'd love to have them, the Human Genome Project and the Virtual World are out of our reach (on account of how long it will take us to get the tech, then get Ind Auto, then build the SP - unless our superior movement nets us some AA's to cash in - let's hope the first pop of our gunfoil is a Unity trannie!!)
I sense that we're ambivalent re the Weather Paradigm and the Merchant Exchange (nice to have, but we don't care if others get them)
I'd put the Planetary Transit Syatem and the Planetary Energy Grid somewhere between these first 2 categories - ie, not a "must have" but stronger than a "nice-to-have"
Which leaves 2 "militaristic" SP's - the Citizens' Defence Force and the Maritime Control Center. I'd consider us somewhat of a failure if we didn't get these 2 SP's (CDF plus either HEC's plasma armor or Field Modulation's 3-res armor would make us pretty untouchable until Chaos weapons, and i don't think we should ever let another faction gain naval movement points on us (it was huge for the CyCon in that last game)
Thoughts?
G.
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Zeiter
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Sounds good. But I'm still a little worried about going crawler-less for as long as we plan. You know that once the other factions get crawlers they are going to zoom up the powercharts and snag every SP they can get their hands on. How long are we planning to go without crawlers? Are we going to try to steal that tech immediately after another faction gets it?
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeiter
Are we going to try to steal that tech immediately after another faction gets it? |
That would be my suggestion, yes. 
We more or less know that the Hive is in the middle with the four human factions probably around them. For two of the human factions, the Angels and the Morganites, an immediate b-line towards Industrial Automation seems most in their advantage. So if we have one coastal base of both sides of our peninsula, build a gun foil there, and follow the coastline, we should be certain to at least meet one faction that has IndAut. We could first offer a trade, but if they refuse, we can send some probes to go grab the techs we want instead.
quote:
You know that once the other factions get crawlers they are going to zoom up the powercharts and snag every SP they can get their hands on. |
Even if we would b-line immediately towards IndAut, I fear we would still be unable to grab any of the good SPs.  After all, because the Angels start with InfoNets + PlaNets, and because the Morganites start with IndBase and have a high energy production, they'll get IndAut before us anyway, unless a real miracle happens. So they'll have first pick of the SPs no matter what we do.
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Zeiter
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Hmmm, I don't think we are really in a position yet to take on Yang's perimeters. I would go with Maniac's tech beeline, so my vote for next tech would go to social psych.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Andemagne
is Hunter Seeker Algorithm too far up the tech tree? |
A bit, but it's through some techs that really are sidelines (such as Polysoft and Opticals, with only AMA being of limited value for the AAA capability)
And it's other half needs Plan Nets, Int Int and Cyberethics, and there are so many more fruitful avenues to explore if going down that route that PSA and the Hunter-Seeker seem such a luxury
quote:
CDF and PDL sound good to me.  MCC could be useful too.
but can't see why you are not fond of WP. |
Halving terraforming time is certainly useful, but in PBEMs the games rarely last long enough to get the well-developed bases with boreholes, condensors, energy farms et al up and running.
Possibly its biggest advantage is early boreholes for the massive minerals/energy pop when the EE's get researched (which again is early in PBEMs as compared to single player games). But to offset that, as the EE's come so early in PBEMs (trading, techsteal, etc) you are really giving up a lot in production to build an SP, especially if using crawlers to upgrade (the base producing the SP, the base(s) producing the crawlers being "sacrificed" and the eschewing of other SP's in favor of the WP.
So it's generally considered of dubious value. Plus, you can build an awful lot of conventional formers in the base that's producing the WP, and as a result be much more versatile
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
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Hmm - that's a point that I overlooked (I've read it before but obviously it didn't sink in)
(I don't remember ever building a condensor in a game, either SP or MP)
And just looking at the current turn's barchart and "who's who", the AI are pulling away from all 4 of us (Buster has done a good job of placing the AI with some advantages, I guess - I wonder if he did tinker with giving them some energy and mineral satellites?)
Point is, we might need to foist a pop-boom on ourselves and build some musclemass before attempting to take on Yang solo - and if buster has set up the AI in submissive or permapacts, we might bite off more than we can chew
Maybe an all out assault on pods is the way to go - could fasttrack us thru some techs, via popping them or AA's, or could net us some serious coinage (particularly ocean pops) or planetpearls.
Last edited by Googlie on 23-07-2004 at 18:29
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27-06-2004 06:57
Also with this project we could bully all factions without fear of being isolated in tech trades and fall back technologically.
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