27-06-2004 08:26									#1
	Can't trade strategic resources? Get a bigger avatar today!

Or can you? I never got the option to do so. I remember doing it back in the civ3 vanilla days. But I'm playing conquests now.

I had to go to war several times to secure resources. rubber, coal, aluminum. I was playing an earth map, I'm not sure if that was why.

	27-06-2004 09:29									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Should be able to.

	27-06-2004 12:54									#3
	Re: Can't trade strategic resources? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dissident Or can you? I never got the option to do so. I remember doing it back in the civ3 vanilla days. But I'm playing conquests now. I had to go to war several times to secure resources. rubber, coal, aluminum. I was playing an earth map, I'm not sure if that was why.

I always have them come up to offer to other Civ's, but if they have something i need & they don't (eg not at that Tech yet because i can trade it to them) they never offer to trade it to me

	27-06-2004 14:08									#4
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Strategic resources are that scarce in Conquests, that there's rarely a surplus for a Civ to trade. Trash Conquests, it's horrible. Play PtW, or Civ2.

	27-06-2004 19:49									#5
	Got spare money?

I have plenty of resources (well except for those listed above). I had plenty of iron. Actually, I guess 2 more sources of coal came up. The one I went to war over was a colony I had (the terrain was awful for a city). The ai had built a city neary my colony and caused it to go away. I demolished the city and re-established the colony. But eventually 2 more sources popped up without me noticing.

perhaps the ai didn't need any iron. But surely they needed something I have. I didn't scour the map real close to see what the ai had or didn't have.

we'll see the next game. I'm playing a small map, so it should be easier to tell.

	27-06-2004 20:40									#6
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You can trade resources as long as you met all the criteria.
First is to have a surplus of it, then have a trade route with the civ.

	28-06-2004 01:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 You can trade resources as long as you met all the criteria. First is to have a surplus of it, then have a trade route with the civ.

They have both, e.g. Aluminium is on the map as I have discovered the tech, but the others don’t have it, so they should have a surplus as they can’t use it, they have a roads or rail over it & I am trading other resources/luxuries so that’s okay. Just wonder why they don’t offer me the Aluminium???????

	28-06-2004 02:09									#8
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If they do not have the requiste tech they do not know they have the resource. You see it, but they don't. Plus they would need to have 2 sources to be able to trade. Human players can trade their only source, but the AI cannot.

	28-06-2004 02:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 If they do not have the requiste tech they do not know they have the resource. You see it, but they don't. Plus they would need to have 2 sources to be able to trade. Human players can trade their only source, but the AI cannot.

Thanks for that, makes sense now Guess its back to the War 'drawing board' when planning how i get the resources

	28-06-2004 07:36									#10
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It's possible I was too far ahead in tech. I take it you can't trade resources if the ai doesn't have the tech?

The problem was I was playing a Regent game. This was a predesigned map, so I played a lower level, because it seemed like a hard map. It's possible the map had settings that restricted trading strategic resources. Maps in this game really are scenarios it seems. So who knows what settings are flagged... It was either that or because I was so far ahead in tech.

Well this game I played on a random world- tiny map. On Monarch level. So I was pretty even in tech until the very end.

Even though I missed out on nearly all the wonders until the industrial age, this difficulty level is no challenge either. Looks like I'll have to go higher.

	28-06-2004 11:32									#11
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If you need a resource you should ALWAYS place a city next to it. No terrain can be too bad to not build a city on it to reserve a resource. Unless you of course already have that resource 3 times and you can't trade it to other civs anyway.

Always take it

	28-06-2004 13:09									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy If you need a resource you should ALWAYS place a city next to it. No terrain can be too bad to not build a city on it to reserve a resource. Unless you of course already have that resource 3 times and you can't trade it to other civs anyway. Always take it

I hate it when i am 1 turn away from building my city next to a resource & the computer builds right on top of it. I could build & go to war, but i want to declear war on my terms, not theirs

	28-06-2004 13:27									#13
	Put an end to popups!

That's why you shouldn't be one turn too late
Go and get it as soon as possible, and even sooner then that!

	28-06-2004 14:38									#14
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy That's why you shouldn't be one turn too late Go and get it as soon as possible, and even sooner then that!

Culture Bomb.

	28-06-2004 16:36									#15
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Culture bomb is my usual tactic to gain a resource as well
Plant a city immediately next to the resource and start to pump out culture-buildings

	29-06-2004 04:36									#16
	Remove this text

taking by force is quicker . That's my preferred method.

I rarely get in any decent cities by culture bomb. Unless they are in between my cities. Most cities I do get are crap.

	29-06-2004 11:06									#17
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I'm not a warmonger.
And I didn't mean to get the city by culture bomb, but just the resource.
X=city
Z=enemy city
Y=resource

XYZ

Now if city X has more culture then city Z, city X will get the resource.

	29-06-2004 16:11									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Could be also that the civ is already trading a recource to another civ (other than you...)

	29-06-2004 16:21									#19
	Suffering from ads?

No, the AI can't trade it's last resource, so you'll always see a (0) resource.

	30-06-2004 02:49									#20
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That's the thing. I rarely can get resources that are 1 square adjacent to the ai city. If it is 2 squares away, I can usually get it.

Even though my cities almost always have more culture. I think the ai cheats . They seem to accumulate culture faster than they should.

I've had cities with more wonders than the ai, yet it has less culture (and I have built all the culture improvements)

	30-06-2004 03:33									#21
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They AI does not cheat on the culture issue.

Remember the 1000 years double effect. Remember culture is accumulative. You would have to look at the culture per turn to see if you were creating more. Did you investigate the city to compare the numbers?

It is quite common for the AI to get its temples up sooner than you at high levels as they get a big discount.

	30-06-2004 22:38									#22
	Re: Can't trade strategic resources? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Dissident Or can you? I never got the option to do so. I remember doing it back in the civ3 vanilla days. But I'm playing conquests now. I had to go to war several times to secure resources. rubber, coal, aluminum. I was playing an earth map, I'm not sure if that was why.

Resources are scarcer than they were in CIV III especially luxuries. Earth maps usually have more resources than standard games so this is probably not the issue (unless your playing a european civ with all of the civ's on the map.) Changes have been made to the game with C3C so that trading accross an ocean is pushed back until the industrial age.

quote: It's possible I was too far ahead in tech. I take it you can't trade resources if the ai doesn't have the tech?

Tech knowledge is required before trading for the resource.

quote: That's the thing. I rarely can get resources that are 1 square adjacent to the ai city. If it is 2 squares away, I can usually get it. Even though my cities almost always have more culture. I think the ai cheats . They seem to accumulate culture faster than they should. I've had cities with more wonders than the ai, yet it has less culture (and I have built all the culture improvements)

Actually you dont fully understand how the culture war is fought. A city has four border rings which expand at preset levels of culture. A cultural battle for a particlar tile is determined primarily on which border ring that the tile is in. In battles between cities that have equal or near equal culture then a tile is awarded to the city that is closest to the tile. So even if a city does not have equal culture to your city, if the tile is closer to the enemy city than to your own they will retain possession of the tile. However, if the cities were equal distance apart then you would gain possession of the tile.

	02-07-2004 08:08									#23
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 If they do not have the requiste tech they do not know they have the resource. You see it, but they don't. Plus they would need to have 2 sources to be able to trade. Human players can trade their only source, but the AI cannot.

I'm not sure about strategic resources because I always have them, but I did this with luxury resources before. It was vanilla civ3, if that matters any.

	02-07-2004 11:30									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Luxs are known to all at the start in terms of tech, none is required.

The AI knows where resources are, but is ignorant of them for trade purposes, if it does not have the required tech.

So if you know Gunpowder, you can see all on the map. The AI understands resources are on a given tile, but without gunpowder it cannot reflect that knowledge, nor trade it.

You can test htis very easily by giving it the tech need for that resource. If it has a free one, it will show up for trade. IOW, it will not help if that is the only one it has or it trades away any excess.

	02-07-2004 13:12									#25
	Tired of ads?

I made an image.
It shows what city can get the resource in which situation.

Attachment: tile.jpg
This has been downloaded 76 time(s).

	02-07-2004 20:35									#26
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I've built cities right on the border of an AI civ (just like the diagram on the right in CyberShy's posting) in order to pull a resource or luxury into my civ borders. On many occassions, this garnishes a declaration of war.

Has anyone experienced this? If so, any thoughts to why?

	02-07-2004 22:34									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

because the AI isn't as dumb as we think?

It seems they do get upset at you taking resources.

	03-07-2004 01:33									#28
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Did you actually drop the settleron their land, inside the border? This will trigger a war.

	03-07-2004 09:08									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Did you actually drop the settleron their land, inside the border? This will trigger a war.

Right. War shouldn't happen if you create a city just outside the border, even if in so doing the border shifts. (personally, I'm surprised culture-flipping isn't a cause for war. I'm certainly PO'ed everytime it happens to me.)

	03-07-2004 21:27									#30
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Thanx for the Visual Aid, Cyber