23-02-2001 18:50									#1
	A New Forum: Civ2 Research Got spare money?

I would like to have a forum where civ research geeks like me, few in number as we are, can post and discuss the formulas and game mechanics we have uncovered. Stuff like how does civ calculate the number of beakers needed to gain your next advance? What is the % chance for a vet spy to destry city walls? and may others.

Thanks in advance for considering my request.

	23-02-2001 19:48									#2
	Remove this text

can you produce a list of such threads that already exists so that we can have an idea on the kind of volume the forum will have?

	23-02-2001 19:49									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'd support this idea. Sounds very natural and useful as well. There are so many things to keep track of, and the subject doesn't really fall under the category of either strategy or general/community.

	23-02-2001 20:53									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Mark, the volume of posts would be very low, which is a good thing. The problem now is that it is very hard to find the particular threads when one needs to because they could be in any number of forums; General, Stratagy, Creation, Sleague, etc.

Here are some recent threads:
Diplomats and Spies
Demographics
GNP
ToT Advance Slots

Here is an old one:
Beaker Reseach

	24-02-2001 10:12									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah... many of these things have already been discussed. Instead of a new forum, links to such threads could be put in the "Great Library" thread that is always at the top of the Civ Strategy Forum.
As new threads are developed, just provide a link so people can find them. That IS the purpose of the GL thread

I really don't think a whole new forum is needed

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	23-02-2001 23:53									#6
	Suffering from ads?

I must say, I agree with Ming on this one. This sort of thing is covered in both the Civ2 Creation and Scenario League forums on a fairly regular basis. A whole new forum wouldn`t really be needed.

	24-02-2001 02:02									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Paul Hanson on 02-23-2001 01:53 PM</font>
I must say, I agree with Ming on this one. This sort of thing is covered in both the Civ2 Creation and Scenario League forums on a fairly regular basis. A whole new forum wouldn`t really be needed.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That is just my point - This sort of thing is covered in both the Civ2 Creation and Scenario League forums - and in Stratagy and in General. That's why I feel it needs its own home.

Ming, I don't see any confilict between this and the Great Library at all. In fact, I think they would be very complementary.

I see the Civ2 Research forum not as a place to link other threads to (as the GL thread does), but rather as a place for these threads to be developed.

	24-02-2001 03:58									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Those threads could just as easily be developed in the Civ Stratagey forum... as they already do As long as there is "minimal" activity in that type of thread, it will stay on the first page. And if not, then there really isn't a need for a new forum...

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	24-02-2001 08:12									#9
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Research threads do take a long time to develop, Ming. That is why they would benefit from there own forum.

Research is not stratagy, so why should it be lumped into stratagy?

	24-02-2001 09:07									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'll have to say research <strong>is</strong> part of strategy. Why would you care about this if you aren't interested in optimising your game? Granted, there are a handful of those who are interested in knowledge itself, but they generally wear white lab coats and have crazy hair
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Urban Ranger (edited February 23, 2001).]</font>

	24-02-2001 19:11									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I monitor two Civ2 forums only: "General/Help/Community" and "Strategy" (I don't know "Creation and Scenario League" forums ). I think most of threads comes under one of following category:

A. How to play (strategies, tips,tricks...)
B. How it works (rules, facts, formulas, game mechanics...)
C. Others

I suppose the primal intention was to keep C in "General/Help/Community" and A and B in "Strategy".
(Maybe, Ming should always move threads to the appropriate forums: "Why can't I be a princess?" belongs to "General/Help/Community", "Info: diplomats and spies" belongs to "Strategy"
(problem is that html is off in "Strategy"; why?))

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by William Keenan </font>
Ming, I don't see any confilict between this and the Great Library at all. In fact, I think they would be very complementary.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Yes, Great Library covers the group A. ("Info: diplomats and spies" thread is a try how to cover B.)

I see William Keenan speaks about a small subset of B. I think the determination of the group B is natural and shouldn't be narrowed.
Group B comprises about half of "Strategy" forum and a small part of "General/Help/Community".
I think to divide "Strategy" to groups A and B would be useful but it isn't necessary.
<hr>
I think another problem is more urgent: Group B should be categorized:
When I built "Info: diplomats and spies" thread and browsed through Apolyton, I noticed the same problems were discussed in couple different threads. People usually start a new thread since it is hard to find appropriate past thread.

One possible solution are subthreads, not accepted warmly here
(<A HREF=/forums/"/forums/Forum20/HTML/001243-2.html"> Too much of information </A>
).

Other solution is to affix keywords (demographics window, combat system, dip/spy, caravan, terrain improvement...) to threads.
The set of all keywords would be released.
Keywords assigned to a thread would be visible on the forum window and used within search function.
Moderator (or every Apolytoner) would continuously add keywords to a thread (if needed).

	24-02-2001 20:51									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Again... the purpose of the GL is to be a place people can go to when looking for information. If you find a thread that has important information in it, post a link to it in the GL. A real simple thing to do


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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	25-02-2001 10:10									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 02-24-2001 10:51 AM</font>
If you find a thread that has important information in it, post a link to it in the GL. A real simple thing to do
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Almost every thread contains some useful information.



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All knowledge stored at Apolyton must be sorted!

	24-02-2001 23:20									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 02-24-2001 10:51 AM</font>
Again... the purpose of the GL is to be a place people can go to when looking for information. If you find a thread that has important information in it, post a link to it in the GL. A real simple thing to do
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Again Ming, your answer does not address the request. I'm not looking for a place to link threads to, rather a place to develop those threads.

BTW I don't have crazy hair nor do I even own a white lab coat, however, I can definatly claim membership in that handful of those who are interested in knowledge itself.

	25-02-2001 04:39									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by William Keenan on 02-24-2001 01:20 PM</font>
Again Ming, your answer does not address the request. I'm not looking for a place to link threads to, rather a place to develop those threads.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

But your request has already been answered. That is what the Civ Strategy Forum is for. People like Xin Yu have been tearing the game down for years there.

The first page of theCiv Strategy Forum usually covers threads going back 5 to 7 days. So any thread that has ANY life to it will be easy to find. If responses to threads take longer than that, then there isn't a need for a whole forum dedicated to just that

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	25-02-2001 08:43									#16
	Suffering from ads?

Well, Ming, we disagree; IMHO Reseach is not Strategy.

	25-02-2001 09:43									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You are welcome to your opinion.

But the real issue is the lack of a need for what you request. It's been in the strategy section since the beginning... and will probably stay there

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	25-02-2001 14:12									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I understand your request, William. I would like to suggest a compromise. Civ 2 Research is a very specific topic that are interesting to few but may benefit a large number of users.
To let you get find the topics easily, Just put a [Research] in front of the topic. This is the way I used in my dial-up BBS days for easily identifying the topics which I am interested in.
If it is possible, it will be good to tag some threads retroactively so that the same kind of discussion does not spawn up frequently (Like Happiness, Spy usage, Combat formula, etc.)

	25-02-2001 20:32									#19
	Got spare money?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by William Keenan </font>
Well, Ming, we disagree; IMHO Reseach is not Strategy.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
I agree. The name of Strategy forum is confusing. When I came to Apolyton, I placed my first (research oriented) thread to "General/Help/Community", since I supposed Research comes under "General ".

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Chow Yun Fat </font>
If it is possible, it will be good to tag some threads retroactively so that the same kind of discussion does not spawn up frequently (Like Happiness, Spy usage, Combat formula, etc.)
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
I think it is not sufficient. An example: you want to know if there exists a thread that deals with barbarian appearance.
Will you search Apolyton for [Research] and then go through hundreds of threads? No, you will start a new thread and you will assist to disorder here.
You need more specific tags. You need to be able to search for [Barbarians].
(Please read my first post here.)

Ming,
do you know the reason why html is off in Civ2 Strategy?

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All knowledge stored at Apolyton must be sorted!

	25-02-2001 23:22									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Why not change the title from strategy to Strategy/Research?

	26-02-2001 00:44									#21
	Tired of ads?

If you are going to change the name, it should be the Civ Knowledge Forum.
But again... The Civ Strategy forum is the place for research. Research effects how you play the game... strategy

	26-02-2001 01:01									#22
	Tired of ads?

How about we just say that all research threads could go inside the Strategy forum? That way the knowledge earned could be used as/for a strategy and a strategy could be used to form a basis of research.

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If someone doesn't agree with you, you haven't explained yourself well enough-Luther Ely Smith

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	26-02-2001 08:03									#23
	Got spare money?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Slow Thinker on 02-25-2001 10:32 AM</font>
Ming,
do you know the reason why html is off in Civ2 Strategy?

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Ming, do you ignore me?


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All knowledge stored at Apolyton must be sorted!

	26-02-2001 08:19									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why ask me... Ask DanQ or MarkG