27-06-2004 19:16									#1
	The Cold War Heats up: A legoland Communication Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Hi, asleepathewheel! We plan to replace Horation Nelson just like all our other caravels in the Western Ocean (you probably did notice we have been gradually replacing them starting from the southernmost tip of our picket screen). Current tentative schedule is within 10-15 turns. Hope that's ok with you - marines are at least that far into the future, so there is nothing to fear from that lone caravel, even speaking theoretically. Regards, vondrack Legoland

Looks like they aren't willing to budge even a square. I wonder why. How should we respond? Marines 10-15 turns away? Don't worry you have nothing to fear for 10-15 turns, but then, smack. Hahahaha

	27-06-2004 20:35									#2
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How about something to the effect that we are not worried as we figure you have nothing to gain by attacking us, even with other allies.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 28-06-2004 at 03:11

	28-06-2004 02:22									#3
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I say we ignore the message, and move our destroyers next to it. Or, we move our transports next to their coast.

It would be best if they simply moved it... if there is a message to be sent, we have to say we are not amused.

DeepO

	28-06-2004 02:32									#4
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO I say we ignore the message, and move our destroyers next to it. Or, we move our transports next to their coast. DeepO

If our immediate priority is our defence then advanced pickets will help us - so I agree, we say nothing more to Lego and move our own advanced pickets into position.

	28-06-2004 02:46									#5
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A naval arms race could get started here whatever we do, which I don't think we want, as it can ultimately only help Lego.

	28-06-2004 03:08									#6
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i like the ignoring but moving something within range of their coast.

	28-06-2004 03:10									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That is the problem. If Lego doesn't move, they force a naval cold war. And in the end, it hurts us. So probably, it would be better if we handle this diplomatically... we could for instance ask that they move to their new positions now.

Their message is bogus, of course. They only have to move that picket one square. It is a principles thing to them, that they don't want us to dictate what happens in the Mare Nostrum. This is for them a test to see how we will react.

If we send them a message, we should include something along the lines of "It's a pity you force us to spend more resources on military units, we had other plans for our limited capabilities." Blame them on our military buildup... as long as we don't mobilize, we can do this.

DeepO

	28-06-2004 03:23									#8
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are they using this as a pretense for war? A squabble over sea lanes, a skirmish of scouts and a blow up into full war?

What about:

Vondrack-

Could you please remove the Horatio Nelson to one tile east of its current location. At this point, we would rather not spend our limited resources on more military units, which you having units within landing range of our coast is doing. Pickets and scouts are acceptable, of course, but not in our territorial waters, which extend seven tiles east of Stormia.


(tempted to throw in something about still being weary of war, post bob, but that would be over the top, I think )

	28-06-2004 03:25									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO If we send them a message, we should include something along the lines of "It's a pity you force us to spend more resources on military units, we had other plans for our limited capabilities." Blame them on our military buildup... as long as we don't mobilize, we can do this. DeepO

Would they buy this, though? I doubt it - I reckon they are expecting an attack. Zayxus probably told Vondrak that GoW and GS are plotting against Lego, and anyway Vondrak understands GS to be a warmonger team who don't have enough shields or commerce to win a Space-Race - which is true.

Unless we do a whole big public propaganda thing that looks like we think we can win with the UN, they will expect an attack, and may launch a pre-emptive.

Having said that I wouldn't rule out the idea of acting harmless, but I doubt it'll be convincing somehow.

	28-06-2004 03:30									#10
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Most importantly, I don't think we should rush anything. The faster messages fly, the more the temperature rises, so I say we keep the diplo-kinetic-energy low and play it c-o-o-o-o-l. For the moment, anyway

	28-06-2004 03:51									#11
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it doesn't really matter if they buy it or not, at least it will make them doubt. We have shown a lot of galleons in short time, so unless we say something about expressing our fear from invasion, they will assume we will attack soon.

I don't know if Zayxus has told them, but it is entirely possible. I don't expect our invasion to be a surpise, we simply can't keep it secret... mobilizing will be the end of any ruse, the moment they spot that, they know we're coming.

pre-emptive strikes are very possible as well, which is why we need a defense plan! not so much to defuse the situation, but more to prevent us for going for a space race. We do have a lot of commerce, and are capable of research, especially with our wonders. And we might not have a big productive empire, but you don't need that for space: you need a couple of good cities, and adequate planning. We've got those, and have proven already we're more then capable of timing big projects. We could get to space, but who wants to? It keeps the game going for over a year...

CH, I do agree we don't have to rush to send messages. However, we should think of these asap, to decide our point.

Sleepy, the message you propose is nice, however, I would not mention any territorial waters. We have not talked about this before, and would only anger them. asking to move their pickets is asking for a favor, we are in no position to threaten them. We can't confiscate their patrol boats, like happens irl

DeepO

	29-06-2004 02:10									#12
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Okay, so what are we going to do about the Legos?

1. diplo resolve?
2. threatening their coast as well?
3. moving destroyers closer?

DeepO

	29-06-2004 03:39									#13
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Its a tough call between 1 and 2 for me. I don't want to reveal our destroyers yet...

What if we posted a note to them asking again to remove the HN one square east, whilst moving a ship to be in range of their coast the next turn. One more chance for them to back down, then we have something in their waters within landing range.

Perhaps a note to MZ (GoW) would be in order, to see if they are doing similar things out west, though due to landmass proximity surely they are, but is it an issue?

what about counsel from RP? though apparently the are absent even to play a turn....

	29-06-2004 03:50									#14
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agree, sleepy. destroyers are moving closer, but we shouldn't be too fast in them. Primary goal would be the prevention of a cold naval war...

RP? interesting idea, why not? seeing the comments here, we're more or less out of ideas on this one. One thing is sure to me: we have to act in some way. We can ignore them diplomatically, but then we have to show we're ready for them.

DeepO

	29-06-2004 03:56									#15
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any ideas who we could even contact on RP? I wonder if lego thinks we are having them hold the turn while we figure out what to do

	29-06-2004 07:23									#16
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Lego go bananas whenever anyone is slow on a turn. Togas has played it now.

We mustn't have a naval arms race, we should move our own scouts 'up the park' in reply. They are looking for our quiet naval buildup, so we'll look for theirs.

	29-06-2004 13:56									#17
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I've been thinking on something else. This is a perfect excuse, if it escalates, to cancel our lux deals. Not only ours, but also GoW's and ND's.

Re: moving transports up: we can upgrade some transports, and move them up close to their coast. That makes a lot more convincable threat.

But in that case I think a message to them is in order, something like "Why do you force us to threaten your coast as well? Moving your galleon one tile wouldn't hurt you one bit, and we both know the upgrade argument is a bogus excuse..."

DeepO

	29-06-2004 18:33									#18
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I don't know if we want to say anything provocative. I'm sure they are scouting, rather than getting into place for a chained invasion. Words like "threaten" only raise the stakes.

I suggest:

quote: We are surprised at your determination to maintain a naval presence within landing range of our coast. Under these circumstances you will naturally understand that we have no choice but to arrange a reciprocal presence off the coast of Legoland. An alternative solution would be for the Horatio Nelson to withdraw 1 tile eastwards. Respectfully Yours, etc

	29-06-2004 18:37									#19
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If Lego are happy with both sides having advanced pickets, this suggests that they are not planning an Invasion, but striking a defensive posture.

	29-06-2004 18:51									#20
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I like the message. However I've got to check if we're able to threaten them immediatelty, it could be that we need a couple of turns before we get into place.

Oh, and the scout is forted, so I don't think it is there to move in and out of our waters. But that doesn't matter... it's too close

DeepO

	09-07-2004 07:57									#21
	Put an end to popups!

Did CH's last suggested message get sent?

In a general way, I think we have to acknowlege that Lego will be expecting the worst, i.e. an attack by us, with allies.