29-06-2004 01:21									#1
	Way to go, Atari! Tired of ads?

Alright, this story seems like it is nothing particularly new, but I just found it. It all boils down to this:

quote: Xbox World and PSM2 magazines, owned by Future Publishing are being accused of fixing their review scores for Atari's Driv3r. Both magazines in earlier reviews, reportedly gave Driv3r a 9/10 despite major bugs and technical flaws that include cars bumping into invisible walls during scripted sequences and a vehicle flying around in mid air. It is thought by some industry insiders that Atari somehow influenced the scores handed to Driv3r in PSM2 & XBW by offering some kind of bribe.

http://www.gamedev.net/community/fo...topic_id=253605

More elaboration can be found here:

http://news.spong.com/x?art=7014

And here:

http://forum.gamesradar.com/viewtop...der=asc&start=0

Well, so much more reason to hail our beloved Infogrames...

	29-06-2004 02:26									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

game reviews can never be 100% trusted because game review sites are so dependent on game companies. there have been accusations and rumors(not to mention real bribery) at gaming review mags/sites for a long time now. there is no real reason for reviews sites/mags anymore. game forums supersede them in everyway imo.

that said, atari/infogrames has always been a shitty and probably corrupt company. remember they did ship like millions of enter the matrix a while ago too and of course civ 3.

	29-06-2004 02:53									#3
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quote: Ellis then moves on to claim that although the game may have been buggy upon release, the editorial team had no way of knowing this, as the review was written off the back of pre-release, non-final, code. “Because of the long lead times for magazines and the fact that it was an exclusive review, the code we reviewed from was not final. We were made aware of some bugs in the game and were promised that these would be sorted by the time of release. I cannot comment on whether these were fixed or not..." he states. As to whether magazines should be advising readers to buy products that cost £45 without ever seeing what those consumers will end up owning, is another matter entirely.

that's what really caught my eye from the articles. it just shows how reviewers best interest are at odds with what their job is supposed to be - ensuring educated consumer decisions.

	29-06-2004 08:25									#4
	Suffering from ads?

I very much doubt this an ATARI only thing btw.

	29-06-2004 09:49									#5
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Yup. Major graphics card vendors are known to "optimise" their drivers for known benchmarks

	29-06-2004 14:18									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Probably not just Atari but let's blame them anyway.

	29-06-2004 16:24									#7
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Corruption like this has been going on since the beggining of computer home entertainment - I use about half a dozen different computer game review sites and the forums and if they all are recomending a game then its a good bet that the game isn't a bad one.

And yet we still sadly support these companies and give them our hard earned money

I'm as guilty as anyone with this. Although i do make an effort to punish the bad guys in the industry, if a great game comes along and the gossip on the forums says its good, then i have been known to buy a game produced by Atari/Activision etc - I'm so weak when it comes to computer games

EDIT: i feel a bit guilty naming Activision - they did agree to the release of the source code for CTP2,which was an incredibly noble gesture on their part :b I guess i was struggling for another big name publisher to add

Last edited by child of Thor on 29-06-2004 at 20:53

	29-06-2004 16:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Who knows. Maybe us folks at Poly are part of it too?

	29-06-2004 16:34									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Do you have something to tell us Daz?

	29-06-2004 16:42									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

People still give a **** about reviewers?


I really don't understand how places like IGN can still be going even after giving those complete and utter flops like MOO3 and Black & White some of the highest scores possible.

It's quite obvious most of the reviewers base their scores on hype and in anticipation with how well the game will do, rather than how good the game actually is.

	29-06-2004 17:35									#11
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd People still give a **** about reviewers?

Still? The first review I ever read made me ignore those reviews... I only read reviews to see what features are in the game


The first review I saw said (from memory): (This is for The Settlers 1)

quote: What should we build now? A toilet or woodcutter?

Toilet?

	29-06-2004 19:05									#12
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quote: I really don't understand how places like IGN can still be going even after giving those complete and utter flops like MOO3 and Black & White some of the highest scores possible.

There's one born every minute...

	29-06-2004 21:57									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I really don't understand how places like IGN can still be going even after giving those complete and utter flops like MOO3 and Black & White some of the highest scores possible.

CGW seems to be a good bunch, though.

	30-06-2004 02:30									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar This explains the Civ3 scores.

civ3 was a damn good game

	30-06-2004 02:35									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I still get Computer Gaming World. It's a fairly entertaining magazine.

And the review not only helps me determine if the game is good or not. It also lets me know how the gameplay is (some reviewers are better at this than others). By describing the gameplay, I can make my own opinion on whether I will like a game.

For example, if a game does not have the ability to pause in single player mode, there's a good chance I won't enjoy playing the game.

that being said, I did buy black and white based of CGW's review. That was a mistake. I should have read more about the gameplay from other sites. Iirc, the review in the magazine didn't describe the gameplay very well. they just impressed me when they talked about the number of options you take in certain situations. Like near the beginning they said, you have many different options to do something (I can't remember what exactly). It almost seemed like a roleplaying game to me.

	30-06-2004 03:08									#16
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It is a role playing game. You play the role of the chump who forked out £35 on that rubbish.

	30-06-2004 06:55									#17
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quote: CGW seems to be a good bunch, though.

CGW has always seemed a little fishy to me. I subscribed 1996-2002... now I'm only subscribed to CGM... they have much higher quality writings.

PC Gamer is actually better written than CGW nowadays (as far as I'm concerned) Though I frankly worry if they are bought off sometimes.

I think that CGM is safe, however.

...Evil Atari... ... ... ...

	30-06-2004 08:38									#18
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I can't stand any of them. Filled with all this hyped up crap- I understand excitement and interest over upcoming hardware and games but it's so obvious the way they overdo it. Right now the only reviews I read are from you guys and www.metacritic.com, which does an ok job of balancing the votes.

	30-06-2004 13:48									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike in ref of Civ3 It is a role playing game. You play the role of the chump who forked out £35 on that rubbish.

That was so evil Dr.Spike (i know you were half joking)

I understand Civ3 does have some good qualities and did add to the genre, it could of course have been so much better(or atleast thats what many Civ2 fans wished it to be). But yes the hype machine got its fangs into Civ3 too.
I cant believe 'Vanhelsing' myself - according to various 'top ten' sales tables i've looked at it seems to be in the top 5 mostly and is the xbox's best selling game???
This cant be anything other than corruption laced hype surely - i heard even the film was naff...........

[evil atari ]

	30-06-2004 15:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor That was so evil Dr.Spike (i know you were half joking)

I don't blame Dissident at all. I've been drawn in by hype and let down, as have everyone here probably. It was much worse a while back when 'testing' a game before buying wasn't really possible.

	30-06-2004 17:54									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by MattH Right now the only reviews I read are from you guys and www.metacritic.com which does an ok job of balancing the votes.

Nice site. Thanks for pointing it out.

Oh, and companies that pay for better review scores:

	30-06-2004 23:49									#22
	Tired of ads?

quote: can't stand any of them. Filled with all this hyped up crap- I understand excitement and interest over upcoming hardware and games but it's so obvious the way they overdo it. Right now the only reviews I read are from you guys and www.metacritic.com, which does an ok job of balancing the votes.

Interestingly enough, I've found that the magazines don't usually review 'indie' games like Baseball Mogul or Hollywood Mogul that are actually better than games like Sammy Sosa High Heat or other games... and yet, about 2-3 years after the game is out, they'll mention in some small feature how it's the epitome of its field... but they STILL won't review later iterations of it!


(oh, and if you like our reviews- I suggest "AIRLINES TWO"... it's really low-budget, but it's marginally fun, and for $5 well worth the cost of running an international airline (think: Transport Tycoon with spreadsheets) [I just purchased it 2 days ago ]

	01-07-2004 02:45									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud but they STILL won't review later iterations of it!

why waste a review on a company that doesn't buy ads...

	01-07-2004 06:57									#24
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I used to love CGW but even I have to agree the mag has gone significantly downhill over the past decade. The glory days of CGW were the 80s and early 90s - it was THE gaming mag.

Now, I just visit the various online sites/mags to see what's IN the games. For games that I *really* want and have been waiting on for years, I'll take the risk of buying them when they come out (Civ3 , MoO 3 , Deus Ex 2 , Thief 3 , etc.). For anything else, I either wait for the price to drop or until enough costumer feedback is available on various gaming forums to form a more informed opinion about how good/bad the game probably is (though most such opinion is just drivel and flames between people who can find no fault in a game and people who can find nothing right with a game).

	01-07-2004 19:57									#25
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I will never get used to the way infogrames has appropriated the famous name, famous icon that was Atari. It's so creepy.

	01-07-2004 20:57									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah i loved that little icon, it used to give me a big smile when loading a game(i knew something good was about to happen)....

Now it does nothing for me those responsible for this should be on trial with Saddam..........well ok maybe thats a bit strong

	01-07-2004 22:47									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is a bit old, but for what it's worth, Penny Arcade did a comic on this issue.

I can also somewhat sympathize with the magazine writers. They have to compete with the Internet- IGN, say what you will, can offer looong reviews (pixels cost a lot less than paper) with lots of screenshots the day before release, having played a final version for 2 weeks. The magazine people would be a month or two behind that and be hopelessly out of step. Cutting quality controls and hoping no one notices is their only choice to keep up the pace without looking behind the times.

	01-07-2004 23:07									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Bkeela I will never get used to the way infogrames has appropriated the famous name, famous icon that was Atari. It's so creepy.

Atari, still famous!!!? Once renowned perhaps, but famous?

Perhaps until crash of 1983/84 and after that it was dropped by Warner and split into the arcade division Atari games (later Tengen) and Atari computers. The latter of which was taken over by Jack Tramiel. Who was, oh dear irony, the founder of Commodore.

Like Commodore it's just a historic brandname with a logo, nothing more.

	02-07-2004 03:02									#29
	Tired of ads?

Atari is famous... even more so than the Commodore.

So many of everyone's favorite games from the 80's originated from the Atari.

I know it was still pretty famous until 1989... then in the 1991/2 its game console system tanked (The atari jaguar)... I sold My atari in 1995/6 because the controllers kept dying.

	02-07-2004 04:37									#30
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I just remember the Atari 2600

I can't remember what games they did. Pitfall? I think that was activision. I know they created games like Combat.