08-07-2004 11:21									#31
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Making polls is a profession

Which is why I never pay attention to political pollsters. One can design a poll to produce whatever is desired.

	08-07-2004 12:32									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Which is why I never pay attention to political pollsters. One can design a poll to produce whatever is desired.

Yeah, and much polls show that it works! And that's why politicians do it.
The people get the politicians they deserve. For sure in a democracy. That's why it's pure hypocritism when people are always complaining about politics in western modern nations.

That's because they vote for the candidates with the most easy-listening arguments and the best smile.

Oh well, let's not turn this in a politic debate thread

	08-07-2004 14:42									#33
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I'd prefer to have national music back rather than Wonder movies.

	08-07-2004 16:05									#34
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Yeah me too! The music in civ3 was kind of a letdown... (and no I donīt think it brings the right feeling to listen to winamp while playing )

	08-07-2004 16:30									#35
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Wonder-movies are like television, a pure waste of pure-civ-time

	08-07-2004 18:29									#36
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I voted no. I'd watch them each once, and then disable them, just like I did with CivII. Waste of resources, IMO.

-Arrian

	08-07-2004 22:07									#37
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Leaderheads at least are things you keep on seeing. Wondermovies are turned off after 3 times anyway.

Only because leaderheads can't be turned off! At least wonder movies have always added real atmoshpere, instead of nerding up and cluttering the diplomacy screen with cartoon caricatures.

Voted Yes. I still watch SMAC movies every few times through the game.

	08-07-2004 22:14									#38
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DAMN IT YES!!!

I bought a legal copy of civ 2 exclusively because of the wonder movies.

	08-07-2004 22:55									#39
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy The diplomacy screen is automaticly turned off in civ3, since it can't be turned on. The civ3 diplo screen is like the civ2 diplo screen while the diplo screen is turned off

Where do the leaderheads turn up then? In Civ2 you can turn off the entire diplomacy background with the portrait etc. so you only get the text boxes with the diplomacy options.

quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond I'd prefer to have national music back rather than Wonder movies.

But only if they use the Russian theme from Civ1.

	08-07-2004 22:58									#40
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quote: Where do the leaderheads turn up then? In Civ2 you can turn off the entire diplomacy background with the portrait etc. so you only get the text boxes with the diplomacy options.

in cIIIv there is no diplomacy background.

quote: But only if they use the Russian theme from Civ1.

Man, I can't remember what it was, but I die to hear it again. any midi's somewhere online?

	11-07-2004 04:12									#41
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Apocalypse, civ4 will have a budget. The wonder-movie-makers will cost money and decrease the budget for the programmers. Thus: more wonder movies will mean less features in the game.

Completely agree.

On the long run wonder movies add nothing to the game, and cost money.

Maybe a compromise could be reached by using 5-10 sec wonder movies, but no longer.

	11-07-2004 06:23									#42
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quote: Man, I can't remember what it was, but I die to hear it again. any midi's somewhere online?

I liked the music for the palace building scene in Civ 1.

Was that the Battle Hymn of the Republic? I seem to remember something to that effect.

	11-07-2004 08:35									#43
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I believe that was one of the songs.

	11-07-2004 16:03									#44
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I visited the civ4 forum specifically to request that they put the movies back in.

There was a doco on the hoover dam on tele tonight, and it just reminded me fondly of the feeling of history and wonder the old wonder movies gave me.

I think they're very important in Civ. The wonders in SMAC gave a real sense to the experience which does draw me back. In Civ2 they gave a sense of real history which ... well, it's one of the things which made the game so special. It's not just an esoteric wargame, it's a game in which you explore real human history.

PLEASE put them back in Firaxis. The lack of them in civ3 really is one of the reasons I prefer civ2 and SMAC.

	11-07-2004 16:09									#45
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Well said.

	11-07-2004 16:51									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I liked the music for the palace building scene in Civ 1. Was that the Battle Hymn of the Republic? I seem to remember something to that effect.

In Civ1, every civilization had an "anthem"--a piece of music that was played at significant events such as when you got a palace upgrade or discovered a new tech advance. The "Battle Hymn of the Republic" was the "anthem" for the American civilization.

That said, I would like to see anthems brought back. It gave the civilizations some nice flavoring when each one had a distinctive bit of music to go with it.

	11-07-2004 17:43									#47
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YES!!!

	11-07-2004 20:01									#48
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy quote: But only if they use the Russian theme from Civ1. Man, I can't remember what it was, but I die to hear it again. any midi's somewhere online?

Search "Song of the Volga Boatman"

	12-07-2004 05:55									#49
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You can download Volga Boatmen's Song from here:

http://ingeb.org/songs/burlaki_.html

	12-07-2004 07:32									#50
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Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

quote: Originally posted by AustralianJeremy I visited the civ4 forum specifically to request that they put the movies back in. There was a doco on the hoover dam on tele tonight, and it just reminded me fondly of the feeling of history and wonder the old wonder movies gave me. I think they're very important in Civ. The wonders in SMAC gave a real sense to the experience which does draw me back. In Civ2 they gave a sense of real history which ... well, it's one of the things which made the game so special. It's not just an esoteric wargame, it's a game in which you explore real human history. PLEASE put them back in Firaxis. The lack of them in civ3 really is one of the reasons I prefer civ2 and SMAC.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer gameplay over a moving picture I see 2 times. Or at the very least, spend more time on things I have to stare at all the time, ala units or terrain.

	13-07-2004 23:20									#51
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What about background music? I don't know about anyone else, but I turn it off eventually. Should the game leave it out?

	14-07-2004 02:11									#52
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I think what many people are not realising is that Civ2 was a great game because it catered to all types: hard-core strategy types, SimCity eye-candy types, historical simulation types...heck, even role-playing types. It was an ensemble production.

By cutting out all the "bells and whistles" you cut out a big portion of your fan base. I know many people who played Civ2 just to get the palace looking spiffy, or to build up an impressive city view. What about the Civilopedia descriptions, should they go too? They certainly require a non-trivial part of the budget (consider all the different language versions). What about animations and leaderheads? And music?

It's not a stretch to claim that most of the people posting on this forum are "serious" Civ players; most casual players do not spend hours a week reading a fan forum. Serious players tend to like game mechanics; casual players the fluff (obviously an oversimplification).

It seems to me that an all-around great Civ game would include Wonder movies, for those types that care about that kind of stuff (and they exist: SMAC and Civ2 fans remisnisce about Wonder movies all the time). I believe it would hurt the game in the long run if all of Civ4's budget went into a super-duper AI. Sounds silly to all of us hardcore strategy types, but it's true.

End of rant.

	14-07-2004 04:21									#53
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Voted no. They are fun to watch 2-3 times, but who cares after that. They just get annoying after that and are a waste of programming time, developer resources, and space on my HD.

	14-07-2004 07:24									#54
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What he said.

	14-07-2004 07:53									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Brent What about background music? I don't know about anyone else, but I turn it off eventually. Should the game leave it out?

I turned it off too. If it would help improve the rest of the game, then sure, don't bother with it (unless it's quite good, but this ain't a movie or TV series).

	15-07-2004 23:31									#56
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Not worth the effort. Give me a better city view screen though, not buildings haphazardly stacked on a 2d image.

	16-07-2004 02:27									#57
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I voted No.

Takes up space in the game that is already big enough, for CIV3 I already had to delete some porn to make room for it

Takes up too much time, both while gaming and for the programmers who should be working on more important things (like the AI you all complain about). I hate it when I build a wonder, and my 486 grinds and whizzes for a stupid little clip that I have already seen 100 times before.

Adds nothing to the game. I believe the reason they took out of 3 was because made the feel of the game too disjointed, and I agree. I like to have a consistant flow throughout the course of the game.

quote: Give me a better city view screen though, not buildings haphazardly stacked on a 2d image.

(holy crap, I agreed with a Moron )

	16-07-2004 10:17									#58
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@ Japher

I voted Yes. I think Dominae made a lot of good points in his post above. The widest appeal attracts the most buyers and the game has something for everyone. Civ 2 had presence!

	16-07-2004 14:59									#59
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Again,its the practicality question,i want wonder movies,yes,but if that means less work on the other aspects of the game i guess i can live without them

	16-07-2004 17:43									#60
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Well, the people doing Wonder Movies won't be working on AI or other game mechanic programming. Rather they'll probably the same sort that does unit graphics and whatnot.

Personally, I've always liked the Wonder Movies, it gives you a sense of achievement and accomplishment. It helps make the wonders seem as significant as they are.

-Drachasor