30-06-2004 06:47									#1
	Turnplayer rota options Get a bigger avatar today!

Turnplayer rota options.

Ok, agents and operatives here's some of the ideas we discussed before regarding how we manage the turn play. Discuss the options here again and then we'll poll if necessary, The decision will be kept topped anlong with any other game play faction rules we agree on.

So in essence we have two broad approaches.

1) A 'fixed number of turns' rota with every agent getting the opportunity to be the turnplayer, if they wish.

2) A fixed length of time, say a month. Here the number of turns per month could vary sharply. But again it would be by rota, every agent if they wish having an opportunity to play.

3) Similar to 1) except the player stepping down can stand for re-election

4) Similar to 2) except the player stepping down can stand for re-election.

By rota it goes without saying you won't be the turn player until everyone who wants has been given a chance.

For the rota scheme, as the turnplayer has less to do in the early years there was the suggestion of something like the first two players get 15 years, maybe then every 10 years.

But maybe we should simply have it every 10 years (or shorter) so that interest is maintained.

It is possible 10 years turnplay (over the summer could take 6-8 weeks of your time being on call.

Finally there is the method of selection,: by election or choosing your slot in the rota. (swapping places allowed, if new people arrive, maybe some leave, or substitutes if a player is simply unavailable for a few days)

So as far as I can determine there are three main issues for clarifiaction:

The scheme ; the interval and the method of selection.

	30-06-2004 14:09									#2
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EDIT:
Time for prompting should be anywhere between 2 hours and 16 hours depending on the importance of the new information.

We'll need to evaluate the ability of each turnplaying nominee to follow the plan steps 1 to 4.

Aside from that, my plan is more efficient than Herc's.
Access to the IRC channel is a requirement of being a turnplayer.
Maybe we can even have Turnchats?
That reminds me...

Last edited by Enigma_Nova on 30-06-2004 at 14:18

	30-06-2004 14:15									#3
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I edit that.

Requirements of a turnplayer:
1. Consults the forum and IRC for advice
2. Plays by the plan set out by the turnplanners
3. Prompts the turnplanners when random occurance or new information happens.
4. Does all this promptly

So, anyone who can follow orders and is active in the IRC channel at the time is the turnplayer.
No set turnplayer for any given turn!

	30-06-2004 17:02									#4
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I've been turnplayer in previous ACDG, and doing a good turn was possible without the help of IRC (which I can't use for some reason), so I don't see the need for it.
In case a turnchat is needed, alternatives to IRC exists, I don't think we should pin it down to one means of chat.

I'm in favour of a turnplayer for a period of time (or a number of turns, whatever) to avoid problems. I can imagine that on a first come first play rule the turnplayer from the moment goes by orders he/she sees, but that a turnplanner comes up with a change of plans for something is not as he thought it was, but can't tell yet since he hasn't seen the turn before the turnplayer of the moment already issues orders.

Therefore should, IMO, a turn NOT be played before at least a number of members have seen the incoming turn and can comment on them in light of already drawn plans. We have 48 hours, I say let's use them instead of moving a turn forward in the shortest possible time. Our survival as a faction may depend on it.

However, to accomodate Enigma's fear of slacking, a backup member should be appointed to play when for circumstances a nominated turnplayer can't do his job.

	30-06-2004 17:20									#5
	Put an end to popups!

Here's my turn plan:
(For Geo)

1. Turnplayer gets turn, posts to forum
2. At the next available turnchat, exploration and pod popping happen
3. Turn planners have 24 hours to apply and debate their strategies
4. Turnplayer applies the strategies at the next turnchat
5. Final settings are debated in the forum in the remaining time
6. Turn is sent on

In my post, I mentioned the turnplayer seeking advice,
and playing on the plan set out by the turnplanners (us).
Read my posts more carefully.
* Enigma_Nova slaps Geo around a bit with a large trout

	30-06-2004 17:45									#6
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I'm still in a habit of planning it all before a turn comes in (was easy with the Hive as the previous faction ), and making chances where needed when it comes in.

I can tell you in advance that it won't be easy to plan a turnchat, not to mention twice a turn, for playing a turn with a surfficient number of participants to make it worthwhile.

	30-06-2004 17:55									#7
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Dude, people have at least 8 hours of non-work per day.
By changing our sleeping patterns, we will get at least 1/3 of the people in here to the chatroom.... probably more like 2/3.

	30-06-2004 20:40									#8
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I want to see more of our agents comment on these issues.

The turn I assume will be posted in the turntrack thread, so Angels can open it, have a look, but make no moves. This was how most factions operated last game. As Geo said there was usually nothing so urgent that it required a turnchat. But I can see the possible advantage and even necessity for it arising in combat situations.

But for example take this first move. Say we spot a monolith within the potential base radius rather than a Nut special, what then, or if a pod. The belief is that a pod within a base radius will produce a goodie but it could be a unity rover or a energy or mineral special or maybe something else.

The point being, do we decide to plant the base on a particular tile and take the chance on the pod or explore further looking for that Nut Special.

	30-06-2004 20:53									#9
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Since I've been involved in about the entire ACDGII in the Hive team, I thought I could offer some of my own experience, if it is of any value to you.

We had turn chat in the beginning. However this method was abandoned, because turn playing gets more complicated in later stage, and more mistakes happened during a turn chat compare to the other alternative, that is planning ahead and the turnplayer plays following the plans. I was among the adavocators of turn chat myself, for I believed it is the way for democratic decisions. I later realized that this is an inferior method of planning and playing, through my experience first as non turn player, and then as a turn player.

For unexpected and unplanned events, what many people do is to stop and save the game, and then come to the forum/chat to solicitate advise, before continue to finish the turn.

Regarding chats, I would appreciate everybody post his chats in the forum, for the purpose of facilitating moderation of the game.

	30-06-2004 21:52									#10
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But we need to make decisions based on exploration and combat.
I see Turnchats as the only way of going through 30 random things in a turn.

	30-06-2004 23:09									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If you do a good preplan, you shouldn't have to stop 30 times in playing your turn. Even if it is the latest stage of the game.

I'm sure the CCs and the PEACE in the last game didn't stop 30 times in any given year, nor did the Hive do that.

	30-06-2004 23:32									#12
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Yeah, we can plan for combat "IF we lose THEN x..."
Exploration could do a forum thing

Of course, there will be a crapload of IF-THENs, and even if the turnchats are not official, I'd rather have someone to chat to before a move is made unilaterally.

	30-06-2004 23:42									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Dude, people have at least 8 hours of non-work per day. By changing our sleeping patterns, we will get at least 1/3 of the people in here to the chatroom.... probably more like 2/3.

You have high expectations of the commitment of our members, Enigma.

I'm a bit more realistic in view of the commitment levels of the previous ACDG.

	30-06-2004 23:49									#14
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Well, here's how we did it with PEACE:

1) had preplanned certain moves, and explorers had a certain direction or were say, following a coast.
2) turnplayer got the turn, executed preplanned moves and saved a mid turn and posted/emailed it out for everyone to look over and make any suggestions on worker placement etc. also would stop if a major thing came up like meeting onther faction or such
3) turnplayer made said adjustments, saved another final presend and gave dealdine for last suggestions before it would be posted to the tracking thread.

Seemed to work pretty well

Oh, and I think we need a better way of deciding the turnplayer ^^

quote: 13:35] Enigma_Nova> Okay Maki - you know Rock Paper Scissors? 13:35] Makahlua> yeah? 13:35] Enigma_Nova> Someone count us down. We need to decide the first turnplayer. 13:36] shiny> 3 13:36] shiny> 2 13:36] shiny> 1 13:36] shiny> go 13:36] Enigma_Nova> Paper 13:36] Enigma_Nova> .. 13:37] Enigma_Nova> Void 13:37] Makahlua> crap. 13:37] shiny> here we go... 13:37] shiny> 3 13:37] shiny> 2 13:37] shiny> 1 13:37] shiny> go 13:37] Enigma_Nova> Paper 13:37] Makahlua> rock! 13:37] Enigma_Nova> OWNED 13:37] * Enigma_Nova is the turnplayer 13:37] Makahlua> you sure we shouldn't ask the rest of the team, anyway? :P 13:37] shiny> Wow. The first official anything for the Angels in the DG... 13:38] Enigma_Nova> This is -so- getting posted to the forums, isn't it?

Sorry Enigma - had to do it!

He and I worked out we could swap turns, like he's odd years I'm even - and we think the CMN's should be okay with that

	01-07-2004 00:22									#15
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Geo: Well, I'm prepared to change sleeping hours.
Maki: Yeah, swapping years works for me.

	01-07-2004 03:09									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, next time I prefer a good ol' fashioned poll for this... So if you guys/grrrrls can live with this, I certainly am not going to put my nose in it.

	01-07-2004 03:55									#17
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Swapping years is fine with me but we have still to decide on the duration of the
first rote. Plus there was three days for nominations and you both were the only nominees. So your dual turnship is appointed.
Don't know what you'llcall sinder though, Sinder Magi Maki.

	01-07-2004 04:03									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You mean how long will they be the turnplayers? My preference, as I've stated elsewhere, is for month-long terms. So I'd suggest that Enigma's and Maki's rotation last until the end of July, realtime. Then, if there's interest elsewhere, we can have another election.

Just one option, for your perusal. I do think that they ought to be recallable at any time, as also stated elsewhere, but having monthly terms on top of that seems to be a good method of keeping turnplay tied to democracy. But that's just one possibility; terms that last a set number of turns are another.

Where do people stand on this?

	01-07-2004 06:42									#19
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If it gets the turns played, it gets the turns played.
Though Maki and I are only getting half a term each.

	01-07-2004 09:15									#20
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You could lobby for option 4).

	01-07-2004 09:25									#21
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Personally, I'd just as soon allow for reelection, or selection, as turnplayer. If someone's doing a good job so far, why change it? But that's not to say I'm necessarily against a rotation -- just that I don't have a strong attachment to either alternative.

If all the faction members were to be rotated through as turnplayers, I would want at least a tutorial in how to screen-capture pictures.

	01-07-2004 09:45									#22
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The way I do and get good pictures is
*open SMAX
*print screen
*open paintbrush
*paste picture (this makes windows process the picture)
*close SMAX
*make a new blank picture
*paste picture again (now it's in true-bit color)
*save as gif format (jpeg format works well, but does some blurring).

You can skip the closing of SMAX and pasting the picture the 2nd time. If you don't mind grainy pictures.

	01-07-2004 09:52									#23
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One tibit to Kody's steps, I would open paintbrush before I open SMAX. Because SMAX is full screen so I don't know how to open other programs if there are no other programs running at the same time. When you opened SMAX and printed screen, you can use Alt Tab to switch to paintbrush and past it.

	01-07-2004 13:57									#24
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* Enigma_Nova points to the START menu

	03-07-2004 04:56									#25
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You don't have to know how to screen capture etc to be the turn player, just know how to play the turn and how to save mid game and save before the end. Nor do you need to be able to access IRC or MIRC. This faction ethos (amongst others) is opportunity for all agents and angels.

You do need to listen to advise and to note the decisions. Plus if you have to make an immediate choice, that is impossible to save, think what the faction choice would be. Enigma and Geo when on line (and me will be happy to discuss options)

	03-07-2004 05:04									#26
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Shortly put, but fully agreed.

	03-07-2004 05:09									#27
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Alright I need some more responses on this before we set out our current Data Angels rules on these issues. Obvoiusly the weekend is not the best time for canvassing opinion.

	03-07-2004 05:10									#28
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IRC would be useful.
Without it, you lack access to the team's instant-message means of communication.

Knowing how to screencapture will also help.

It's important that you can perform a list of tasks in the correct order - lists will split based on random events, so you'd better be organised!

Being able to play the turn quickly and/or efficiently is a must. No sense having a turnplayer who's only on once every 24 hours, if 3 saves are needed.

	03-07-2004 05:23									#29
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Thanks for the feedback so quickly. About to open the end turn but base builds of 2 probes at this time seems good idea. (I know it can be changed but it wasn't discussed.

Plus still can't believe we got 2 monoliths, unless I misread the report.

So in run up to MY2102 lets get our ideas together. This will be Maki's turn as turnplayer. Right

	03-07-2004 14:15									#30
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I'm pretty sure it was discussed in there somewhere...

What wasn't discussed was the Slider setting.
Again, my bad.
Should probably discuss these things before they arise, eh?

(goes to 2102 discussions)