30-06-2004 10:35									#1
	Game discussion - what next? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As I posted in the turnchat thread, we have several things to mull over right now. Some are immediate, some are for longer term goals (dozen turns or more).

quote: Next, to decide is what to do with the worker between Feudality and Serf's Up, whether to pop the hut and further orders for the warrior, what to build next, and whether to rename our cities (and what to).

We also need new city locations, and a general plan. Are we going for any wonders? What techs next? (In fact I'll start a separate poll on that sometime soon).

So let's hear you thoughts and plans. I will throw in my own when I get a little time to do so.

	30-06-2004 20:29									#2
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Looks to me like territory expansion much more benifital in long run than any wonder given the very high quality of open land and all the food our current cities produce.
4-4-7 from Surf City, 1-1-1 or 1-1-4 from Washington, 3-3-3 from Feudlity

As to techs, since Egypt won't sell us anything, reserach the cheapest tech they already have.

	01-07-2004 07:34									#3
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I think our Warrior should heal up before opening the hut. Last thing we need now is our entire military wiped out by hut barbs, so minimize that possibility. We won't be getting a Settler from that hut in any case as Emperor AI's won't have their 3rd cities by now.

I think we should hold off research for a bit now and save up some cash. We'll be able to start trading once we get another contact or two, and basically get what we could be researching now for free. We'll need a bit of cash to buy Alphabet probably, but the rest we should be able to trade for. Egypt seems to have contact with Japan (or someone who got the Wheel from a hut) as otherwise they should trade BW or WC for it. If we must research, I would suggest Mysticism as it will complete quickly and probably offer some trading possibilities. We won't be able to trade BW or WC to anyone as all AI's will have it by now.

To make contacts we need to pick a direction and go with it. Egypt looked to be from the W or SW, so either N or NW. Our next Warriors can go N/NE (Feudality) and S (Serf's).

Barb camps will start showing up soon, but barbs in C3C are completely idiotic and not terribly worrisome even on Raging levels. As long as we don't get to close to them (on an axis they will attack even) they'll just sit in or next to camp.

I would suggest we start a Granary right off in DC. If not right off, after a Warrior (then Worker) completes. If we go with a Warrior, make it Warrior, Worker, and then use the Worker to chop 2 Forests (the ones to the N) to speed the Granary along.

Warrior then Worker in Feudality (I would say Granary here too, but I'll start by trying for one in DC first... ).

Serf can start a Barracks after a Warrior build or two.

	01-07-2004 11:40									#4
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Although I have to look at all of this with some more thought a little later on, the Granary(ies) in Feudality certainly sounds good. We have had several turns of disease already, and a Granary would mean we could get back to higher pop a lot faster than otherwise. There is the small problem that, with as much as +5fpt in Feudality we could grow too big and start getting into happiness woes, but if we were careful and built a worker every now and again and occasionally cut back on the food for a few shields from the hills and Mountains we should be able to handle it.

Barbs are not a great worry, I agree, although the Military Minister already reports a camp somewhere near DC! I am a little skittish of having undefended cities with that Egyptian Warrior roaming around as well. One is OK, but if I saw anything else headed our way I would prefer at least a warrior per city, with another one scouting around, and maybe a Javelin Thrower sometime for enslaving more workers. That could be an argument for WC over Mysticism or anything else - with all that food we will not be able to easily improve terrain fast enough to keep up with expansion!

	01-07-2004 12:24									#5
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Feudality would make a good 2 turn Worker pump. We'd need to hover at size 5 to keep it running. That gives us +5 food, +4 Shields, with another +2 shields from the mined Hill every other turn.

The Granary in DC is more important though IMO. We can build it faster due to two forest chops, and when we get everything in the city radius claimed, can work 3 BG, Growth Forest, Oasis, and an FP. It should be enough for a 4 turn Settler factory at size 5-7. Not sure if lower pop would work... will check once my installing of Civ + C3C gets done.

+5 food per turn is the holy grail! (and pop pays for it's own luxury rate in non-corrupt cities...especially on rivers)

	01-07-2004 13:33									#6
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Sorry, been confusing Serfs and DC.

Serfs works as a 4 turn Settler factory at size 4.5-6.5 once the 3 BG are claimed and mined. Doesn't work any lower due to corruption.

Turn 1: (Size 4, 15 food, 0 shields)
BG, BG, FP, Oasis (+BG growth)
Turn 2: (Size 5, 10 food, 7 shields)
BG, BG, BG, FP, Oasis
Turn 3: (Size 5, 15 food, 14 shields)
BG, BG, BG, FP, Oasis (+Forest growth)
Turn 4: (Size 6, 10 food, 23 shields)
BG, BG, BG, FP, Oasis, Desert
Turn 5: (Size 4, 15 food, 0 shields)
repeat

Because of city spacing we'd need a Temple in DC or Serfs to claim the 3rd BG (unless one is under a Forest we chop). May as well be in Serfs since that would claim the other 2 as well. That is unless we want to settle a city very close to Serf. Then with another city to the WNW we could claim the tiles necessary. It's somewhat of a long term project either way.

Last edited by Aeson on 01-07-2004 at 13:43

	01-07-2004 14:20									#7
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Wow! Looks great Aeson. Certainly a good thing to aim for, asuming we are left alone enough to develop that much.

And I thought you were talking too much about DC... it was named for the swamps, after all...

	01-07-2004 17:45									#8
	Wonders? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I learned to appreciate the Mausoleum of Mausolos a lot. Usually I go for Philosophy first, so I can build it early. After finishing MoM I choose a second wonder to build, Statue of Zeus, Great Library or Hanging Gardens. I admit I'm quite into wonder building, just because it feels good.

	01-07-2004 18:29									#9
	Support Apolyton

Agran, I'm not so sure we should be aiming at tying up resources with Wonders for a while. Even at Monarch level building early Wonders is a bit risky. The AI starts with several units advantage on us in Emperor games, and it will be a while before we catch up, even with the great food start we have.

What level do you normally play, and what luck do you have with Early Wonders?

	01-07-2004 19:49									#10
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we should conquer the wonder
I think we can invest in one wonder - maybe pyramids or Great Library. But it will be no big deal if we concentrate on armies and kill one opponent early.

	02-07-2004 01:22									#11
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I was under the impression we were playing a Feudal DemoGame and that now that we have enough tiles each city is pretty much independent and will do whatever its local landowners decide. We had agreed to play with a Despot until we got to this point at which we switched over to Feudal style.

	02-07-2004 02:16									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

So you are saying that we can do what we want if we have enough 'ownership' in a city? Isn't there a liege (president or whatnot) that we answer to?

	02-07-2004 03:15									#13
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I don't think so............

	05-07-2004 12:31									#14
	@MWIA concerning Wonders Tired of ads?

I get to build the mausoleum of mausolos close to 100%. It's cheap and the AI seldom builds it. But I usually play Emperor, Continents, standard, Aggr. default and go for philosophy by 100% research first. So there's quite a difference.

But I admit I love wonder building. And I admit they don't really contribute to my gameplay alot, but to bring a highlight every now and then in my peaceful builder playstyle.