Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Paradigm. Do you know what one is? Do you have one? Are you blinded by it?
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (4): [ 1   2   3   4   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 02:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#61 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

"So is philosophy culture or knowlegde?"

Obviously it's not knowledge or the degree would actually be worth something, and isn't culture or you would get credits for going to a party

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 02:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#62 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
They write it and say it. Whether they think it I have no idea. Unless "think" is merely a word that refers to a particular variety of such acts. Though I dont beleive it is.


They just think that folk psychology is not scientifically respectable. I'm inclined to agree, but I think that it doesn't matter. So put me in Davidson's camp.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 02:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#63 Report this post to a moderator
Japher Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 03:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#64 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


So is philosophy culture or knowlegde?


Both, unless you're a Dadaist nihilist, in which case the answer is greenly noised laundry fish.

I think it would be true to say that there are areas of science where philosophy and hard science overlap- and have been doing so since before Bishop Berkeley and his 'to be is to perceive or to be perceived'.

Although Dr. Johnson would refute it all with a backwards kick.

By the by, karzyhoser, I think you meant smidgeon.

Unless smidgum is some Canadian physicists sticky sub atomic matter, or a Newfie fish dish.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 03:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#65 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
I read Kuhn eons ago, when the world was young Im not equipped to critique it as philosophy - my impression was that it was fairly powerful as a statement about the history of science.


Kuhn wasn't a philosopher per se. But his work influenced a lot of philosophers of science. He's interesting, but his model is a bit simplistic. I think he's one of the last historian of science to try to give an account of science in general.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 03:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#66 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Great. I try to make philosophy look good and the continentalists come in.


I'm not a "continentalist"... I'm an analytic philosopher of science, whatever that means. Kuhn wasn't a "continentalist" either.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 14:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#67 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Rorty is.

Anyway, Plato PWNZ all modern philosophers.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 15:58
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#68 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I like to tilt at medical paradigms and so far I've brought down a few. Unfortunately, I've made a few enemies of the people who were too stupid to question inconsistencies in what they assumed were facts.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 16:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#69 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Reading the Rorty paper, he says:

quote:
It was pointed out by Edmund Gettier in 1962 that there was a flaw in the traditional definition of knowledge as justified true belief—the definition first put forward by Plato.


Yeah, but Plato introduces it only to point out why it has to fail, and nobody bothered to listen to him. If more people read the Theaetetus we could finally dump a lot of worthless stuff.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 21:35
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#70 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Reading the Rorty paper, he says:



Yeah, but Plato introduces it only to point out why it has to fail, and nobody bothered to listen to him. If more people read the Theaetetus we could finally dump a lot of worthless stuff.


True. IMO that's a sad consequence of analytic philosophy's stance against history of philosophy. I read somewhere that they even tried to eliminate history of philosophy from the curriculum. Like Rorty himself pointed out (he says sensible things once in a while ):

quote:
Quine was openly scornful about the study of the history of philosophy. In his own student years, Quine had made a point of reading as few of the canonical texts as possible, and he recommended this practice to his students at Harvard. He believed the history of philosophy to be just as irrelevant to current philosophical inquiry as is the history of physics to current research in that field. Quine admired Carnap for having, when asked to teach an introductory course in Plato, responded that he would not teach Plato, because he would teach nothing but the truth. Quinean attitudes of this sort were widespread at Princeton. The Princeton students dutifully competed with one another in argumentative skill and dialectical acumen, rather than in acquiring a wide range of learning.


You have to hand it to them: they had chutzpah!

Flinx is offline Flinx
Prince
Toronto, ON CANADA
Nov 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 05:58 Visit Flinx's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#71 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by loinburger
3. A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality...

Paradigm. Do you know what one is? Do you have one? Are you blinded by it?

or

How do you know what you know?

quote:
Originally posted by Darsnan
Experience. Yes, I utilize a pradigm. I am not blinded by my paradigm because part of my paradigm is to assess and interogate the environment that I find myself in, and act in response to that information. Does that always mean I will be succesful? No. Hence my reply above of "experience".

Your paradigm is how you assess and integrate the world around you.

quote:
Originally posted by Japher
My Paradigm: People are stupid, act accordingly.


When someone has this paradigm about an identifiable group they can be called racist, sexist, homophobic, ageist, classis etc. For example, if a racist thinks all Romany (Gypsies) are smelly lazy ignorant thieves, any Romany that do not fit that description are dismissed/ignored as individual exceptions while anyone who is perceived to have these attributes reinforces the belief. Another person with a different paradigm could think that people like the person in the previous example deny Romany jobs and access to housing and education, forcing them into ghettos, so it is not surprising that some resort to stealing, and the fact that some have escaped this fate is proof that the all could if given the opportunity.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 06:35
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#72 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Paradigm is a pattern of thinking (and perhaps acting upon it).

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 06:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#73 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


So is philosophy culture or knowlegde?


It's a synthesis and culmination of both.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 06:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#74 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Historians (especially the falsifiers of history).

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 06:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#75 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
I read Kuhn eons ago, when the world was young Im not equipped to critique it as philosophy - my impression was that it was fairly powerful as a statement about the history of science.


Bingo.

He was certainly explaining a phenomenon. How intelligent people could simply go about adding more and more wheels to their Ptolemaic models, until some bright light, or lights, came along and turned it all on its head, and things like that.

I don't give a damn what philosophers may say about it, it is a useful thing to be aware of when studying history.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 06:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#76 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by The Vagabond
Historians (especially the falsifiers of history).


You are referring to the fiction writers.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 07:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#77 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither

You are referring to the fiction writers.


Why? I'd alway give to fiction writers as long as it is recognized that what is written is fiction.

History on the other hand is inherently a subject of falsifications without a warning.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 07:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#78 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

I kind of have to grant that, given the way it is presented to the general public. When you get into it you have it drummed into you that this is an interpretation of events based on facts, and that other interpretations of the same or similar facts are possible. But school kids aren't taught that. They are given texts and too often encouraged to treat them as canon.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 07:54
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#79 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

True. Futhermore, in history, whether something is a fact is often a matter of interpretation.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#80 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

Not really. I think you are mixing up facts, like the procession of the seasons and that so and so lived in this century and fought in such and such a battle, with interpretations like 'he was a real swell guy for laying the kick ass on the heathens'.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:28 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#81 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
By the by, karzyhoser, I think you meant smidgeon.

Unless smidgum is some Canadian physicists sticky sub atomic matter, or a Newfie fish dish.



quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


God you physicists talk a load of **** that doesn't even add up to a smidgum of knowledge.

Besides, you all smell and can't get any girls.


So:

a) Kiwi philosophers don't speak the English so good, yes?

b) Aussies are just retarted.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:29 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#82 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

, by the way.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:31 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#83 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
I don't give a damn what philosophers may say about it, it is a useful thing to be aware of when studying history.


KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:33 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#84 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Originally posted by The Vagabond


It's a synthesis and culmination of both.


In other words, it's nothing.

I honestly get the giggles when somebody like Aggie claims that what philosophers have gained is knowledge, whereas what scientists have gained is justified belief.

I'll agree with the second statement, but it's the first which gives me troubles.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#85 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Not really. I think you are mixing up facts, like the procession of the seasons and that so and so lived in this century and fought in such and such a battle, with interpretations like 'he was a real swell guy for laying the kick ass on the heathens'.


I am not mixing it up! I never said anything like that! The notion such as 'fact' is certainly applicable to history. But it is in this discipline that facts tend to be distorted by interpretation most.

Interrelation between facts and interpretation is a complicated philosophical matter though.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 08:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#86 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse

In other words, it's nothing.


If this "nothing" is the same "nothing" as the vacuum is, I can live with that.

quote:

I honestly get the giggles when somebody like Aggie claims that what philosophers have gained is knowledge, whereas what scientists have gained is justified belief.


I can't believe that Agathon said anything like that. You are misinterpreting him!

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 09:00 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#87 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Originally posted by The Vagabond


If this "nothing" is the same "nothing" as the vacuum is, I can live with that.


Which vacuum? |0> or |omega> ?

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 09:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#88 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Whichever!

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 09:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#89 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW, are there two types of vacuum?

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:37
  Old Post 06-07-2004 09:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#90 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:

I was concentrating on the alchemy- I could have mentioned the theology, but the transmutation of base metal into gold was less likely to drag Obi Gyn away from his icon screen,




I belong to a church that eschews icons, molly.

If you're going to bother to drag me into a thread, at least get it right.

quote:

belching clouds of incense and anathematizing Copernican astronomy.


Well, you forget I have been an astronomy student for far longer than I have been a Christian. This isn't anything I haven't seen before.



quote:

presumably that's a flavour Obi Gyn hasn't tried yet.


And you would be wrong. I share many of the same sentiments as Faraday, on these points, especially in making scientific advancements accessable to everyone, rather than concealed in jargon, and mathematical formulae.

Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 06-07-2004 at 10:22

 
Pages (4): [ 1   2   3   4   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.
Apolyton Time is 00:37.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0645 seconds (91.87% PHP - 8.13% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net