01-07-2004 18:17									#1
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Momentum, Hybrid, Builder?
This poll indicates opions only, and is not binding.

Post your opinion and reasons below.

	01-07-2004 18:39									#2
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Vel on Sparta

I believe playing as builder is right out - the others will do a better job and leave us in the dust.

Momentum will be rather difficult to play considering our closest "target" is apparently the Hive.

While it will depend very much on the map and how close to us the other factions actually are, I think we should play it by ear and use a hybrid approach.

	01-07-2004 21:19									#3
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I think we should play as a builder and explorer/pod popper/tech stealer until we get Intellectual Integrity. With that tech we can very easily get elite morale (Spartan inherent +1 morale, +2 from command center, +1 from high morale, and +1 from monolith), and then I think we should invade as many bases or factions as possible with eg some 4-1-1 elite (=> 2 MPs) troops. Once Air Power and MMI arrives on the battlefield, our elite land units become much less powerful again, so we should exploit this window of opportunity as much as we can IMHO.

	02-07-2004 19:11									#4
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It's actually an interesting dilemma

(here begins stream-of-consciousness discourse)

Our faction disadvantage is -1 Industry, but that can be neutralized thru running "Planned", which also helps Growth, but hinders Efficiency (and thus research rate thru lost lab points)

We can remedy the research by going after Zak early, and making him submissive (and to a lesser extent, Lal as well). That gives 2 benefits - his research, and our ability to 'direct" him (eg if we get into Vendetta with, say, Morgan, he'll follow us, thereby denying them the Pact or Treaty commerce benefits)

But ... that means going thru Yang to get to Zak or Lal

So - perhaps our early strategy should be to knock heads with Yang - try to get him submissive before he gets too strong (and that means, as Maniac says, elite Impact Rovers swarming him - we can also get them thru a Command center and a Bio-Enhancement Center, altho we'll prolly be going for SFF and its missiles before Neural Grafting, I guess)

But if we miss out on Yang, then we face the tough decision whether to continue the weapons/armor route. or switch to Builder mode and bulk up on the minerals per base to offset the lousy industry, while keeping options open for a swift strike somewhere

So from my reading of the situation, it appears that all roads lead to yang - we just have to get there first, and in overwhelming force (now, popping that Ogre Mk II would be useful!!)

	02-07-2004 20:15									#5
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I'm against any builder strategy. It just isn't our strength.

Doing war too early has problems. At least I've had problems. It helps to get a decent number of bases up first.

I'll go ahead on vote for momentum, but with emphasis on rapid expansion. When we run out of room we prepare to attack.

After reading some other posts, you all indicate Yang is our neighbor. I'd like to see the starting location for further anaylysis.

Last edited by Dis on 02-07-2004 at 20:21

	02-07-2004 20:54									#6
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Dissident: We don't know too much yet about it. The creator of the map has stated that everyone will encounter Yang first, so we're assuming that the map is star-shaped with Yang in the middle and the others on peninsulas jutting from the centre.

I think that we should emphasise momentum but try to keep it in balance with our builder efforts - I voted momentum but I'm fine with a hybrid approach too. A good solid base on the area we're sitting in right now to get those rover swarms up and running. Making a run for the centre should be priority - we are the ones best capable of robbing Yang clean of what he has.

	02-07-2004 23:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie We can remedy the research by going after Zak early, and making him submissive

Unfortunately buster already made Zak submissive to Lal. So I'm wondering: is it possible for a faction to be submissive to two factions at once? (Could be quite funny )

quote: (and that means, as Maniac says, elite Impact Rovers swarming him

What's your opinion about using elite infantry, as Zeiter states here? Compared to other factions building rovers, elite infantry would be cheaper, have equal movement points and get a +25% base attack bonus.

	03-07-2004 16:53									#8
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Mooooooooooooomentum!!!!!!!!!!



Go go Impact Rovers!

-Jam

	03-07-2004 18:12									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac So I'm wondering: is it possible for a faction to be submissive to two factions at once? (Could be quite funny )

Yes, it is possible

quote: What's your opinion about using elite infantry, as Zeiter states here? Compared to other factions building rovers, elite infantry would be cheaper, have equal movement points and get a +25% base attack bonus.

But don't Elite Rovers have 3 movement points ( 2 + 1 ), versus just 2 (1 + 1) for infantry? I agree that the +25% base attack bonus is worthwhile - helps offset the 25% intrinsic base defense bonus. But a rover also has a 25% bonus when attacking from the open - but that cannot always be guaranteed (attacking from the open, that is)

But this early, strength will be in numbers, so I'd go for 1 1/ 2 best-morale infantry versus a single rover every time - assuming the cost of a rover will be half as expensive again as an infantry unit

	03-07-2004 20:56									#10
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Oh go go Impact Infantry then

-Jam

	04-07-2004 04:35									#11
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personally I do a mixed arms type of thing. Although I usually build more rovers than anything. but if a city is hard to crack, I'll bring up a couple of infantry and try to knock out the toughest 2 defenders with them. but I don't wait around for them. If I don't need them, my rovers will go out ahead.

This is of course against the ai. And I should note I put armour on my infantry, I never put armour on my rovers.

	05-07-2004 21:23									#12
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Well, as my first decision in this game, I voted for Momentum.

Unless we can get some rovers rolling rather early on we will have a hard time keeping up with the other factions. If we need to go through the Hive then so be it, the AI ain't too hot in tactical warfare

And in any case, as a Spartan Captain, I would be very upset to see my soldiers sitting inside a perimeter defense waxing their impact rovers.

	02-10-2004 10:32									#13
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Builder!

Read your history.

Battles are won in the field, but the war is won in the factories!

	02-10-2004 22:18									#14
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I agree, wars are ultimately won in the factories (unless a less-developed faction is able to quickly conquer a builder faction blitzkreig-style before the builder can react pump out enough units).

I am also an advocate of making building a priority. However, I'm thinking of an unconventional approach. I've described this vision in other threads, so I'll just summarize it here:

Basically, we can use a momentum strategy in the short term to augment our building efforts in the long run. We are already drafting plans for a University invasion. By conquering and subjugating the University, we can increase our mineral production (as well as labs production if we get Zak submissive) much more than if we focused on a purely builder style. Of course, we won't stop there, but we'll continue on with Lal and, later on, Yang and the others. If we can just maintain tech parity, our new industrial centers on the Uni/Lal continent will lead us to triumph in any war, especially when combined with our superior morale.

I also advocate that we focus most of our efforts on building up energy credit and mineral production (especially mineral production). In fact, I think we should put the least amount of emphasis as possible on labs production, and instead rely on probing to maintain tech parity. Thus, I'm hoping to soon switch to police state, giving us loads of drone control and support, which will actually make us better builders. Yes, an unconventional approach, but the Spartans are almost perfectly suited for it.

We are very much focused on building, but just in a different way.

	03-10-2004 03:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I agree, wars are ultimately won in the factories (unless a less-developed faction is able to quickly conquer a builder faction blitzkreig-style before the builder can react pump out enough units). I am also an advocate of making building a priority. However, I'm thinking of an unconventional approach. I've described this vision in other threads, so I'll just summarize it here: < snip a really good sounding way of proceeding > We are very much focused on building, but just in a different way.

Point me to your relevant post(s) concerning this please. (I may have gone over them too quickly in my efforts to absorbe everything that's in this forum.)

I've also quickly gone through the latest turn. But still need to tie everything that's here, with what's happening on the map.

	03-10-2004 05:15									#16
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Here ya go. It's about halfway down the page.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=119866

	03-10-2004 05:52									#17
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Yea, okay. I now see that I did catch it after all. (I even bumped the thread myself, cause I want to add something there later )