03-07-2004 09:16									#1
	T-Form Plan revised Suffering from ads?

Just a former plan I've been considering, and I just wanted some comments, since it may be used ingame.

It's a plan that I use for my early restriction lifting play, so I don't know how viable it will be in this game. Since I get a later IA, I want to make the most of my first 4 workers.

What this means is that I need to get 8 nutrients in as few workers as possible and borehole the rest for max usage. So, the average base with rectanks produces 3 nuts, which means that I need 5 from somewhere else. Condensor+farm gives 4 on a rainy tile and a forest gives the last nut, 2 mins and 1 energy. Not counting the base square, this gives 14 mins and 13 energy.

Better is to build the base on a nut special for 5 nuts, farm/solar a rainy square or condense a moist one and drill 3 bores for 18mins/energy.

The final option if you can't afford to waste time moving the pod onto the nut special (if it exists) is to farm/solar it if on a rainy tile, condense it on a moist tile or farm/condense it if on an arid tile.

Most important is the feeding of bases with C-Pods, since they take too long to grow otherwise.

What do people think? I know the habcomplexes aren't that much of an issue for an IA-first approach (AndiD, what's the current plan for research?) and the advanced terraforming comes in much later, so does anyone have suggestions for early game T-Forming? My approach in early game is to upgrade one square according to the outline below, with most desirable first:

1. Forest nut special
2. Monolith
3. Rolling/rainy
4. Farm + Rolling/moist
5. Forest

Only one square is worth improving, since we will be trying to rush everything (can the CFO/CQO candidate confirm this?).

Now the revisions:

We landed well enough nutwise and on a river for rushing fun, so I suggest what we do is once we get our formers, each former roads + sensors to the new base site and drops a forest in the hope that it will grow to something useful by IA. Once we get formers 3 and 4 out, pair them up into 2 teams of 2 and eventually move them in squads of 3-4 as more come out.

--CTO #endgame

	03-07-2004 10:49									#2
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I think a C-pods are expensive if used just grow bases. I would rather rehome some crawlers to a base, and have them crawl some farm w/ condensor squares.

That does make efficient use of squares. 1 condensor & 2 boreholes is nearly equivalent to 6 forest squares (with a tree farm), so only half as many squares needed. That is also, about 3 times as much terraforming time, assuming the forest does not spread.

Your post did give me a bizzare strategy. (I did some quick testing, and can post the saves if you want). A size 1 base will get only unhappy. The human genome project will make it a content citizen. So that means you could crank out tons of size 1 bases, and not have to worry about unhappyness. Especially, since secret projects effect happiness last (tested), we don't have to worry about unhappyness from troops out of our territory. We could even do a grid, in which each base gets its own borehole. With Morgan, you can get nice energy at the base square. With FM and wealth, a regular base square gets 6 energy. With police state, each base can support 3 free units...

	03-07-2004 11:29									#3
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I like this idea, arginine. The goal would be to have way more cities and support way more units than anybody else. The only problem is the -2 efficiency from Police State. It will hurt our energy income. However, inefficiency is less noticeable when bases are close and energy per base is not too high.

The Spartans can do a similar ICS with Police State and PTS. PTS controls one drone, and the scout from the free minerals counts double due to +3 police. That's a fearsome combination.

	03-07-2004 12:29									#4
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Interesting thought indeed, although I personally don't like any society except Democracy.
Would HGP+PTS be troublesome under that strategy or just working fine? (A fan of PTS-thick expansion is speaking...)

Another aspect, guess who will probably like us when we are running Police State... Yang in the middle! (if he is not set thinking about atrocities...)

	03-07-2004 22:40									#5
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I have no qualms againt using Police State if its in our interestes to do so but I will need to be convinced that it is. Police States main benifit (Police) is more then negated by FM which is a must for me and most other Morgans. On ocasion their are situations inwhich Democracyies support penalty is too steep but that dosen't last long. I am douptfull that apeasing Yang will be good enough reason to run Police state especialy when it will offend one of our best trading partners the PK's.

	03-07-2004 22:54									#6
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I too am leery of the police/market combination. If your goal is quelling drones, facilities and specialists are far more suited to Morganite strengths. If your goal is to support more units, building superior mineral industry is the Morganite way to get there.

Besides, you don't need police to make a Morganite ICS work. FM/-/Wealth for your SE choices. HGP+PTS, rushing Rec Commons when the bases are planted for the paltry cost of 52 ECs. Each site will require a 2 nut square or a nut-crawler to accomodate the 3 population's nutrient needs until RTanks can be built, but just those facilities can keep your drones in check indefinitely. Switch to green/fundy once the efficiency gets large enough, and you're ready for your war footing. Creches in each base are used to overcome the -1 morale net penalty, other facilities would be Biolabs, Network Nodes and hopefully you can wrap up the PEG.

With this strategy you don't enjoy the vast support that a Yang ICS would offer, but there's hordes of energy, which easilly make up for it, imo.

	03-07-2004 22:59									#7
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As for Endgame's revisions: Paired former squads are definitely the way to go. As for sensors, by and large, I'd just assume give them a miss for our early bases. It sounds from the Map Room discussion that we're going to be planted in the middle of a landmass, so I think we can safely rely on later bases to make a ring around our interior areas, and plant sensors under those. It's far more important to seed forests with those 4 precious former turns than drop sensors, especially with our support-deprived former force.

	03-07-2004 23:24									#8
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I don't intend for that strat to be viable. It might be possible to make it a viable strat after much tweaking, but it is worthless now. I am for the PTS, but I don't think we will get it, because we have to get the HGP if we want to pop boom...

	04-07-2004 00:21									#9
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I doubt the Gaians (can't run FM, won't get IA in time) and the Spartans (probably aren't playing the Builder's game and suffer industry penalty) will get the PTS before us when we build HGP+PTS in succession.

If the Angels set their mind to it, they probably could but wouldn't be able to run FM during their expansion phase (have quell that drone via police) and won't do much else than building crawlers...

The HGP is more essential for us in any case.

	04-07-2004 06:40									#10
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If I'm able to run FM during my expansion phase when I play as University, then the Angels most certainly can as well. True, they might not be able to do much else besides build and rush crawlers while going for it (Though then again, they do get techs on the beeline to start with), they might well consider this a worthwhile sacrifice.

	04-07-2004 15:33									#11
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But the Angels would need the HGP then, too.

	04-07-2004 15:44									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The ideal former squad (pre-WP) would be:
6 formers + 2 infantry transports
or 5 formers + 1 inf trans.

So we can forest 1 square a turn, though we need flex to pull it off.

Is there an easy way to tell if a square can be boreholed (as in a simple test rather than trial and error)? I know about the slope restrictions, but it's annoying to try and tell.

-- CTO #endgame

	04-07-2004 15:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by AndiD But the Angels would need the HGP then, too.

Not really... social psych will do, although it's more expensive.

	05-07-2004 11:45									#14
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If the Chairman comes knocking on our door, we can gangform sensors and forest on a base that is under threat and stick a synthmetal former on it to stop it being sniped. And for the worms: Trance Formers - Defenders in Disguise!

-- CTO #endgame

	05-07-2004 12:25									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Not really... social psych will do, although it's more expensive.

Whoever said I used either? Pure 20% Psych allocation. In the end, it's the same credit windfall as I would've got with no FM and 50/0/50 allocations, but that's before taking *COMMERCE* into consideration. And you all saw what my commerce was doing before.

	05-07-2004 23:51									#16
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as for terraforming gangs, instead of infantry transports, 2 terraformers, one terraforming every other turn will do just as well.

	06-07-2004 00:04									#17
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Or better still one rover former roading every turn. Saves one min support, over transport/former combo, so over 18 turns (I think? Might be 27...) it pays for itself. Great thing to aim for from a pod pop too, preferably armoured with trance.

	06-07-2004 01:00									#18
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Rover former... Those cost 5 rows vs 2 for a standard t-former. It's worth it for forming flat squares. I'm not so sure for a rolling squares. I guess, a good terraforming gang would have 3 formers and 1 rover former. It would move about 2/3 a square and maybe build a sensor every 5 squares.

	06-07-2004 03:33									#19
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Can pod pops complete prototypes?

	06-07-2004 09:17									#20
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Yes, they can... especially useful for super-expensive crawlers.

	06-07-2004 14:23									#21
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Interesting. I've never managed it with a prototype before, but I didn't know if it was impossible, or if I was simply unlucky.

	06-07-2004 15:11									#22
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You can actually get anything to completion... I once popped a scout patrol to completion. Boy was I annoyed....

	06-07-2004 15:40									#23
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I've had that myself a few times. I know the feeling.

	06-07-2004 20:45									#24
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Important Note:
Do not change production after a successful auto-complete. You lose all the minerals and can't get them back.

	07-07-2004 07:17									#25
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Which base gets the autocompletion when you pop the pod.

Complete anything, you say? Mmmm, pop a SP...

--CTO #endgame

	07-07-2004 07:27									#26
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its always the nearest base, switch that base Pop and then switch back if you didnt get it.