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SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

03-01-2001 09:26

#31

Full PM-box? Change here!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by MarkG on 12-31-2000 12:40 PM
1) if you want to link to a specific post use a url like this
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001678.html#10
this link goes to the 10th post of your thread

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
New window opens using this way . Is it possible to refer to the post on the same page?

MarkG

Guest

Not Yet
time:

03-01-2001 13:55

#32

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by SlowThinker on 01-02-2001 11:26 PM
New window opens using this way . Is it possible to refer to the post on the same page?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>yes, if you write an hmtl link instead(a href etc)

<a href=/forums/"#10">post 10</a>

Urban Ranger

Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross

The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:13

03-01-2001 18:50

#33

Tired of ads?

Notepad is alright, but NoteTab Light is far better. Try it, it's free!

TCO

Emperor

Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:13

03-01-2001 21:19

#34

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Slow thinker seems like a good thinker.

The Mad Viking

King

of the Great White North
Feb 2000
time: 05:13

04-01-2001 02:39

#35

Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This is a UBB forum.

Branching threads suck farts out of dead seagulls.

If you want a branching thread forum, there are plenty of them.

The day Apolyton goes branching thread is the day a lot of us make our last Apolyton post.

TCO

Emperor

Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:13

04-01-2001 03:01

#36

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

(Insert de rigeur remark about TMV helping to build the case for branching threads.)
[This message has been edited by GP (edited January 03, 2001).]

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

04-01-2001 03:26

#37

Inflate your Upload Space

The Mad Viking,
<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by The Mad Viking on 01-03-2001 04:39 PM
This is a UBB forum. If you want a branching thread forum, there are plenty of them.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center> This is a chair. If you want a metallic furniture, there are plenty of them
Sorry, I am slow in thinking. I wasn't able to find more superior example.
Unfortunately, I don't know about any UBB/html and branching-thread forum oriented to Civ. Does anybody know?
<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by The Mad Viking on 01-03-2001 04:39 PM
Branching threads suck farts out of dead seagull
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
Sorry, my english... Can you translate it?
<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by The Mad Viking on 01-03-2001 04:39 PM
The day Apolyton goes branching thread is the day a lot of us make our last Apolyton post.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>I have read many of "strong" sentences like this one yet
I have read two past threads about this problem. However, I never read any lucid argument. Are you (or anybody other anti-subthreader) able to answer to my arguments in Post 25 in this thread?
Or, is it some kind of belief/religion? Are you scared you would loose your belief if you would discuss about the problem?

Peace. I must find a way how to force any hater of subthreads to talk.
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 03, 2001).]

TCO

Emperor

Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:13

04-01-2001 03:29

#38

Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It can be very enjoyable to arouse their religious anger!

MarkG

Guest

Not Yet
time:

04-01-2001 04:33

#39

Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by SlowThinker on 01-02-2001 11:55 AM
Post 25
1.1.1 SlowThinker: You placed your note badly! Your post is not related to "repetition of content". You didn't answer the post.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>if you cant easily know what everyone has posted then it is very likely taht you will repeat something that has already been posted(content repitition)

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
But this don't cooperate well with another good thing: post editing.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>most of the time edits in post are to correct a misspell or something like that, not to add something completely new to the post

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
3.1.1 SlowThinker: Don't confuse subthread system and the possibility to load only subjects. These two things are independent.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>in almost all cases, this is how branched forums work though...

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Solution 3 (best!): You could load full topic and open and close threads like in Windows's Explorer.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>you still have the issue of having to move up and down the screen to see the new posts in various branches of a thread

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
I don't suppose there would be posts with very high level. 3. You could limitate the maximum level
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>why have to limit to probably a small number(5 levels? 10 levels?) when you can have threads with 200-300 posts easily?

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

04-01-2001 13:40

#40

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Post 39
I included Mark's and my notes to Post 25. It helps me to imagine how branching thread system may work.
(I started to think about ways of communication, but I never discussed seriously via usenet or any other kind of Internet forum. This is main reason why I visited Apolyton (I don't say I don't like Civ ). It represents a good studying material for me.)
I am not sure (people answer illogically in usenet sometimes), but I suppose the idea of usenet equals to the structure of Post 25.

Written later:
I thought about the system of usenet (Post 25) now. It is not ideal, of course: I converted Post 25 into Post 40. Read G1 in Post 40 to understand the diffenence between Post 25 and Post 40.

[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 04, 2001).]

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

04-01-2001 13:42

#41

Increase the size of your Attachments

<head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name="Template" content="E:\MSOFFICE\OFFICE\html.dot"> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage Express 2.0"> <title>Too much info 2</title> </head> <body link="#0000FF" vlink="#800080">
<A NAME="40"></A>
Post 40 

Updated March 04, 2001 

Newer posts are italic <hr> <table border="0" cellspacing="0" width="623"> <tr> <td colspan="5">A.1 GP: Branching threads have less repetition of content.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">A.2 MarkG: how so? if you have branches, you can't know what everyone has wrote easily(see #3)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">A.2.A.1 SlowThinker: You placed your note badly! Your post is not related to "repetition of content". You didn't answer the post.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">A.2.A.2 MarkG: If you cant easily know what everyone has posted then it is very likely taht you will repeat something that has already been posted(content repitition)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">A.2.A.3 SlowThinker: I understand. I will answer in C3A2 (a link could be here)
________________________________</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">A.2.B.1 SlowThinker: Theoretically, another idea cultivating A2 could be placed here.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">A.3 SlowThinker: GP, I agree. In current system, people often doesn't read all the thread if the thread changed much since their last visit and people don't search for old threads. Needless posts and threads arise then.
______________________________________</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">B.1 GP: Readers can look at the tree and see specificaly which posts they have not read yet.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">B.2 MarkG: this is doable on our forum right now. if you have visited a thread before and now has new posts, you know it in the thread summary page </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">B.3 SlowThinker: I agree. Arranging by date/time is an advantage over subthread system. But this don't cooperate well with another good thing: post editing. But there is a solution: to add buttons "First", "Last", "Previous", "Next" (and "Show posts added since my last visit/since appointed date" with cookies). This solution is implementable for both systems (the current system (editing would be more useful then) and the subthread system).</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">B.3.A.1>But this don't cooperate well with another good thing: post editing.
MarkG: most of the time edits in post are to correct a misspell or something like that, not to add something completely new to the post</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">B.3.A.2 SlowThinker: Since everybody know that bulk of people won't find out they edited it. So I repeat B3: editing would be more useful then. Of course, some problems would appear if you would try to change "incremental" system to fully functional "editable" system, but i believe theses problems would be resoluble.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" width="4%"> </td> <td colspan="2" width="96%">B3A2A1 SlowThinker: Look F1</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">_____________________________
C1 GP: Instead of having to load a whole thread, you load a post.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">C2 MarkG: and when you want to read another post, you load it clicking on an link. if a thread has 40 posts, you have to make 40 clicks(instead of 1)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">C2A1 SlowThinker: Don't confuse subthread system and the possibility to load only subjects. These two things are independent. (Even in usenet you may load full newsgroup.)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">C2A2 MarkG: in almost all cases, this is how branched forums work though...</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">C2A3 SlowThinker: That is not a reason not to change this habit.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">C3 SlowThinker: GP, I don't know how you imagine the system intimately. If you suppose only one post may be loaded for one click, then I agree with MarkG. Solution 1: It would be better not to change the practice and load a full topic. Solution 2: An improvement might be brought: you could set the desiderative level (depth) for the load at the forum page. Solution 3 (best!): You could load full topic and open and close threads like in Windows's Explorer.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">C3A1> Solution 3 (best!): You could load full topic and open and close threads like in Windows's Explorer.
MarkG: you still have the issue of having to move up and down the screen to see the new posts in various branches of a thread</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">C3A2 SlowThinker: I agree that the solution with Buttons "First", "Last"... is not fully ideal (since it doesnt provide fully synoptic view), but dont forget buttons "Show/higlight posts added since my last visit/since appointed date" (I imagine this would provide a filter; posts would remain not to arranged by date, they would keep a branching structure). Besides, for quick information about recent history, you could provide a special "History" window with posts arranged by date.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="4" width="6%"> </td> <td width="94%">C3A2A1 SlowThinker: Look F1</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">_______________________________________
D1 GP: Forums like this tend to hav more thoughtful posts and less spam.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">D1A1 MarkG: and they tend to be much easier to spam since every post takes up screen space</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="4" width="6%"> </td> <td width="94%">D1A1A1 SlowThinker: Note: D1A1 needn't to be indented. It is a question of choice sometimes.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">D1A2 SlowThinker: Do you mean a large indentation of very deeply positioned post? 1.I think that short indent would be sufficient. 2. I don't suppose there would be posts with very high level. 3. You could limitate the maximum level.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">D1A3 MarkG: why have to limit to probably a small number(5 levels? 10 levels?) when you can have threads with 200-300 posts easily? </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">D1A4 SlowThinker:You see that 2 levels are sufficient for this post. Look G1.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">D2 SlowThinker: I think this note should be connected to A1 (Branching threads have less ...). It is a similar idea.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">______________________________
E1 SlowThinker: I don't think subthreads should be used flatly in all cases. And anybody could decide to allow subthreads for his post/thread or not to allow them.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">__________________________
F1 SlowThinker: (This is an example of type C of point G1 ) You may think that the system would be too complicated and that people woudnt want to change the habit and to get used to new system. But, the man is very adaptive being. Transition to the new system would represents inconsiderable step for man who learned to use a computer, the Internet, the system of current forum... </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">_____________________________
G1 SlowThinker: Hierarchical structure may be built two ways:
a) The way equal to this Post 25. All answers to one post have the same depth, Answer to a post induces an increment of depth. This may cause very large indentation.
b) The way of Post 40 (this thread). All posts (starting post and answers) concerning one problem/scope of debate have the same depth (i will call them "type A" for future reference). Subproblems (minor problems/scopes of debate that have the same basis as main problem) causes indentation and an increment of depth (type B). Problems with a completely different subject of conversation start new thread or are inserted into apropriate area/thread.</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" width="3%"> </td> <td colspan="3" width="97%">G1A1 SlowThinker: Look F1</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5">_______________________
H1 SlowThinker: Notice I had to use horizontal lines to keep groups together.</td> </tr> </table> </body> </html>
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited March 04, 2001).]

Last edited by SlowThinker on 16-11-2001 at 10:41

TCO

Emperor

Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:13

05-01-2001 01:38

#42

Remove this text

Youn are a very logical thinker.

Narck

Emperor

Houston, TX, USA
Apr 1999
time: 23:13

05-01-2001 06:31

#43

Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah but way too slow

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

09-01-2001 05:21

#44

Increase Your PM Length

Hey, all haters of subthreads, do you capitulate?
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 09, 2001).]

tniem

King

Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:13

10-01-2001 01:01

#45

Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by SlowThinker on 01-08-2001 07:21 PM
Hey, all haters of subthreads, do you capitulate?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>

No. I still do not like subthreads.

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

10-01-2001 02:04

#46

Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by tniem on 01-09-2001 03:01 PM
No. I still do not like subthreads.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
Why, tniem? Can you answer Post 40 or verbalize some new reason?

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

31-01-2001 23:30

#47

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Urban Ranger,
<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by Urban Ranger on 01-03-2001 08:50 AM
Notepad is alright, but NoteTab Light is far better. Try it, it's free!
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>

Thank you for good tip. I tried several x-pads before, but this one is the best.

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

05-03-2001 00:53

#48

Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Bump.

Haters of subthreads , do you have any arguments against my reasons in Post 40?

MarkG

Guest

Not Yet
time:

05-03-2001 02:31

#49

Inflate your Upload Space

post 40 is so complicated and compact that i cant find what i'm supposed to answer to

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

05-03-2001 05:46

#50

Tired of ads?

Any item where I answered your try to defend current system:
C3A2, D1A4, G1 for example.

If you agree fully with me and you don't see any remaining reason for current (non-branching) system...you needn't answer

MarkG

Guest

Not Yet
time:

05-03-2001 06:10

#51

Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

ok, seriously...

the problem with post 40 is that each message is only 2-3 lines. we often got posts with tenths of lines.

the flat model with the ability to quote parts of previous posts in order to remind the reader on what exactly the reply is has worked perfectly so far here...

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

05-03-2001 07:01

#52

Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
the problem with post 40 is that each message is only 2-3 lines. we often got posts with tenths of lines.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
I don't see any problem...

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
the flat model with the ability to quote parts of previous posts in order to remind the reader on what exactly the reply is has worked perfectly so far here...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
I am not sure if "perfectly"...There is often discussed 5, 10 or more items in one thread:
It is OK for people who has time to read all the thread (and like to do it).
But many people don't read all the thread since their last visit: In the case of fast growing threads, they often don't notice that somebody answered their posts or that somebody continued on the subject they are interested in. (For example, there is many people that visit Apolyton once per week and usually make several posts. It is very hard for them to keep track of debates).

Kull

King

El Paso, TX USA
Mar 1999
time: 22:13

07-03-2001 06:10

Visit Kull<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!

#53

Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If you really want to improve the quality of the forums, how about a blanking feature based on user name. It's true I can just whip past anything posted by CivNation or Dookie, but how much simpler if they simply vanished from my screen altogether. Give each user the ability to set their own list of "invisibles", and watch the flames subside!

Lefty Scaevola

Emperor

San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:13

07-03-2001 08:51

#54

Tired of ads?

cool

MarkG

Guest

Not Yet
time:

07-03-2001 13:45

#55

Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by Kull on 03-06-2001 08:10 PM
If you really want to improve the quality of the forums, how about a blanking feature based on user name. It's true I can just whip past anything posted by CivNation or Dookie, but how much simpler if they simply vanished from my screen altogether. Give each user the ability to set their own list of "invisibles", and watch the flames subside!
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>this could actually be done but not with the current system...

still, there's the issue of quotes. if someone quotes a post of dookie in his own post, you'll see it, no matter what

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

08-03-2001 00:58

#56

Enter the AD-FREE zone

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by SlowThinker 
But many people don't read all the thread since their last visit: In the case of fast growing threads, they often don't notice that somebody answered their posts or that somebody continued on the subject they are interested in. (For example, there is many people that visit Apolyton once per week and usually make several posts. It is very hard for them to keep track of debates).
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
I think this problem could be solved if

1) people would start any reply with a salutation to author of the original post
and
2) e-mails would alert people not only about new PM's, but also about new appearances of their name/nickname in the threads.
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited March 07, 2001).]

TCO

Emperor

Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:13

08-03-2001 11:24

#57

Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Let's just go to the normal branching thread format. This is the way lots of boards with top notch real content are. That way we don't ahve to repeat ings all the time...

SlowThinker

King

homeless, Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2000
time: 06:13

20-03-2001 05:57

#58

Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by GP on 03-08-2001 01:24 AM
Let's just go to the normal branching thread format. This is the way lots of boards with top notch real content are. That way we don't ahve to repeat ings all the time...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>
GP, do you have some examples of such threads?

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