31-12-2000 21:35									#1
	Too much of information Suffering from ads?

Update: Only items 1), 2) and 7) are important here. You may consider other items as trash.

Hello,
First, my english is weak. I may be impolite, but it is not my intention.
I am newbie here, and it may be the reason why I look critically to amazing amount of not-categorized information at Apolyton.
I tried to start a new kind of thread, look at LINK: Info: Diplomats and Spies.

I would have couple requests to improve a style of communication of that thread:

1)It would be very useful if there would be two or more people with rights of topic starter:
The easiest way would be to allow share one new identity for more people.
More complicated would be to implementate a role of "manager" and "supermanager" of a thread. I imagine manager would have rights of topic starter, supermanager could nominate managers and move his role to another person.

2)There are no subthreads implemented here (such as in usenet). They would be very useful with my idea to concentrate large scopes into one thread. (one level of subthreads would be sufficient).
Update: I imagine full load of the thread and almost unchanged face of pages. Only some posts would be divided into parts of different authors[/i]
Look at <a href=/forums/"/forums/Forum1/HTML/001678__5.html#post10"> LINK: Post 10 </a>in my thread: I tried to "implement" one-level subthreads myself there, but I have always to edit them.
Update: Maybe i was not clever enough. Look please <a href=/forums/"#subthread1">LINK: further in this thread</a>

3)General suggestion: Any person should have the right to delete his own post. We may clean posts completely, but we cannot to delete it.

4)General suggestion: sometimes topic of a thread changes. It would be useful that topic starter could rename it. But old name should remain in the list of topics (with "old" date of last post) with a warning about renaming.

Happy new...year!
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

	01-01-2001 10:00									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Gets to be chieftain and he thinks he's MarkG

There have been all sorts of experiments over the past years, and although the system is not perfect, it works pretty well. However you may want to talk to GP and band together to form a branching threads alliance or something

	01-01-2001 10:40									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

two notes first:

1) if you want to link to a specific post use a url like this
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001678.html#10

this link goes to the 10th post of your thread


2) a good way not to mess up the discussion in a thread of yours is to not bring a second, totally unrelated topic in the thread, like you did in your thread in the civ2 forum, and certainly dont post the same thing in two threads in two diferrent forums!

	01-01-2001 10:47									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SlowThinker on 12-31-2000 11:35 AM</font>
1)It would be very useful if there would be two or more people with rights of topic starter:
The easiest way would be to allow share one new identity for more people.
More complicated would be to implementate a role of "manager" and "supermanager" of a thread. I imagine manager would have rights of topic starter, supermanager could nominate managers and move his role to another person.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>this is rather complicated.
the current is more simple and i think it works: everyone can start a thread, if it's good it will get many posts and create "sequels". if not
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>2)There are no subthreads implemented here (such as in usenet). They would be very useful with my idea to concentrate large scopes into one thread (one level of subthreads would be sufficient).
Look at Post 10 in my thread: I tried to "implement" subthreads myself, but I have always to edit them.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>i think the same effect can be made with quotes(like this one)
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>3)General suggestion: Any person should have the right to delete his own post. We may clean posts completely, but we cannot to delete it.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>some times people say things that later they would like other people to not know that they have said it. we think that inability to delete your own posts improves responsibility in posting...
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>4)General suggestion: sometimes topic of a thread changes. It would be useful that topic starter could rename it. But old name should remain in the list of topics (with "old" date of last post) with a warning about renaming.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>hard to implement as you describe it
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>

	01-01-2001 00:46									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<A NAME="post4"></A>

removed
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 02, 2001).]</font>

	01-01-2001 00:48									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

MarkG,
thank you for answer. But I didn't finish yet
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Provost Harrison on 12-31-2000 12:00 PM</font>
Gets to be chieftain and he thinks he's MarkG
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
could I always remain settler? No smile.
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-31-2000 12:40 PM</font>
two notes first:
1) if you want to link to a specific post use a url like this
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001678.html#10
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
It was my mistake, I wanted to refer to all my thread. Maybe I confused you, "Post 2" is significant to understand my idea, especially.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-31-2000 12:40 PM</font>
2) a good way not to mess up the discussion in a thread of yours is to not bring a second, totally unrelated topic in the thread, like you did in your thread in the civ2 forum
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Do you mean a copy of my starting "Too much of information" in my dip/spy thread? I don't suppose they will answer there. But I agree, a link will be better.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-31-2000 12:47 PM</font>
<font size=1>Originally posted by SlowThinker on 12-31-2000 11:35 AM</font>
1)It would be very useful if there would be two or more people with rights of topic starter:
The easiest way would be to allow share one new identity for more people.
More complicated would be to implementate a role of "manager" and "supermanager" of a thread. I imagine manager would have rights of topic starter, supermanager could nominate managers and move his role to another person.
this is rather complicated.
the current is more simple and i think it works: everyone can start a thread, if it's good it will get many posts and create "sequels". if not
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
The problem is that in my type of thread, "Post 1" should be often edited and that ideas from other posts should be integrated quickly into Post 1. One person (Me, in this case) may not be always available.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-31-2000 12:40 PM</font>
2)There are no subthreads implemented here (such as in usenet). They would be very useful with my idea to concentrate large scopes into one thread (one level of subthreads would be sufficient).
Look at Post 10 in my thread: I tried to "implement" subthreads myself, but I have always to edit them.
I think the same effect can be made with quotes(like this one)
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Oh no. <A NAME="subthread1"></A>I need that everybody can edit his part of post and to add new parts into post (look at Post 10: there aren't my answers for other people, but it's a debate that i collected from many posts and concentraced in one post. Some original posts were deleted yet.). It is little bit laborious for me to pick answers from different places of thread and concentrace them in one post. Everything would be more simple if anybody could include and edit his own part of a post.
I think subthreads would be useful in general case, not in my "special" thread only: I noticed that people doesn't read all the thread if the thread changed much since their last visit. Needless posts arise then.
Of course, this problem is stronger if more things are debated in one thread, but I think it happens very often.
Shortly, minor debates ("subdebates" could be held in one place. It would be more comfortable for everybody.
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-31-2000 12:40 PM</font>
3)General suggestion: Any person should have the right to delete his own post. We may clean posts completely, but we cannot to delete it.
some times people say things that later they would like other people to not know that they have said it. we think that inability to delete your own posts improves responsibility in posting.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Regardless, we may clean posts completely... My motive was that www-page would be shorter if anybody will do it.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited December 31, 2000).]</font>

	01-01-2001 01:29									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

MarkG,

New sugestions

5) What about preview? I put "wait please, i am editing" in front of my post usually, but it would be more comfortable.

6) Window for editing posts is always small. Should I change settings in my browser?

7) I would prefer if posts would be numbered automately. We can refer by date/time or input numbers manually, but i think it would help us.

	01-01-2001 12:05									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm not Mark, but I'm here, so:

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SlowThinker on 12-31-2000 03:29 PM</font>
5) What about preview? I put "wait please, i am editing" in front of my post usually, but it would be more comfortable.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Umm... How about just reading through you posts (maby even more than once) before you press that Submit button? Or if you now find yourself fixing quotes ot URL's or what ever, don't worry. They'll come as naturally as pissing in a month or so.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
6) Window for editing posts is always small. Should I change settings in my browser?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

A lot of people have complained about this. It's a minot detail, and too much trouble to warrant work over. The only escape is a smaller resolution. The box is dessigned with people using low resolutions in mind. Again, you'll get used to it.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
7) I would prefer if posts would be numbered automately. We can refer by date/time or input numbers manually, but i think it would help us.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I don't know if you got it when Mark expained it... Just do this:

This link points to the 3rd post of this thread.

Below is the URL for that link. The "#3" in the end points to the post in question.
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum20/HTML/001243.html?6#3

	01-01-2001 19:46									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SlowThinker on 12-31-2000 03:29 PM</font>
6) Window for editing posts is always small. Should I change settings in my browser?

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I am not Markos either

To get around this you can use a text editor to enter text or edit post. Then just copy the whole thing back into the textbox. I use NoteTab Light which is free for personal use and it's very good. You can download your copy from a nearby Tucows website.

	01-01-2001 20:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Kumiorava,
Thank you for answers
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kumiorava on 01-01-2001 02:05 AM</font>
7) I would prefer if posts would be numbered automately. We can refer by date/time or input numbers manually, but i think it would help us.
I don't know if you got it when Mark expained it.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
I don't mean html-reference. I mean simple reference or notice to post I want to comment.
Another motive: It may be very complicated to count posts when using #"number" in html-references.

	01-01-2001 20:26									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

Urban Ranger,
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Urban Ranger on 01-01-2001 09:46 AM</font>
I am not Markos either

To get around this you can use a text editor to enter text or edit post. Then just copy the whole thing back into the textbox. I use NoteTab Light which is free for personal use and it's very good. You can download your copy from a nearby Tucows website.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>I use original notepad
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 01:02									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Maybe we should go to branching threads (like on the usenet). It looks like everybody wants this.

	02-01-2001 01:48									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by GP on 01-01-2001 03:02 PM</font>
Maybe we should go to branching threads (like on the usenet). It looks like everybody wants this.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Oh yeah, I almost forgot GP only promised to give that issue a break for the remainder of the year (2000)...

So... here we go again... ( )

	02-01-2001 02:12									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Smile when you say that brotha! No room for frownies, here! (Besides, I've been very gentle and subtle despite the growing wave of support I'm getting... )

	02-01-2001 03:01									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Bah! The day a branching structure is implemented here is the day I leave Apolyton.

	02-01-2001 03:50									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

GP,
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by GP on 01-01-2001 03:02 PM</font>
Maybe we should go to branching threads. It looks like everybody wants this.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Do you want to say I am the second man who wants subthreads?

Shadowstrike,
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Shadowstrike on 01-01-2001 05:01 PM</font>
Bah! The day a branching structure is implemented here is the day I leave Apolyton.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Do you have any argument (or link to a past debate, I am newbie here)?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 05:24									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SlowThinker on 01-01-2001 05:50 PM</font>
Do you want to say I am the second man who wants subthreads?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Basically, yes, he wants to say that but fears that everyone will laugh at him and his lacklustre campaign.

	02-01-2001 06:19									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Are there any concrete arguments against our lacklustre campaign?

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 02, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 06:39									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

One of the best parts of this forum is the non branching threads. It makes things so much easier it is incredible. SlowTHinker, I agree with you on point seven.

------------------
Save the whales, collect the whole set!!

If Al Gore invented the Internet, then I invented the spell check- Dan Quayle

If someone doesn't agree with you, you haven't explained yourself well enough-Luther Ely Smith

	02-01-2001 07:02									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by jcarkey on 01-01-2001 08:39 PM</font>
One of the best parts of this forum is the non branching threads. It makes things so much easier it is incredible.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>It is not an argument. Explain it please. Why easier?
Did you look at LINK: my thread about Dips/Spies
Did you read my arguments <a href=/forums/"#subthread1">LINK: supra</a>?

In any case, starter of the topic could decide if subthreads yes or not.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 02, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 07:38									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think you have some great ideas about thread organization and control. Here is a link to my previous effort to convert the boards back to the old Nate Snitzer type boards:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum20/HTML/001154.html?23

And here is a thread where I slightly "jumped the gun".
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum23/HTML/018364.html#4

(The snazzy #post tag doesn't seem to actually show the correct post)

You can see the growing support for the idea. I mean we can count UR as a supporter and if we stretch it Iaiaian also.

Here are the basic arguments for branching threads:

1. Branching threads have less repetition of content.
2. Readers can look at the tree and see specificaly which posts they have not read yet.
3. Instead of having to load a whole thread, you load a post.
4. Forums like this tend to hav more thoughtful posts and less spam.



<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by GP (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 07:53									#22
	Support Apolyton

GP,
I have read past threads a little. I like the special way how you tries to persuade all people.

I imagined just one level of branch, full load of thread, and almost unchanged face of pages. It would suffice for my type of thread ("Info: Diplomats and Spies".

I will think about full subthreads now.

By the way, I have talked with DanQ right now. He is preparing the system of subthreads. He told me he will kick out of Apolyton all people that don't support subthreads.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 03, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 12:52									#23
	Tired of ads?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by GP on 01-01-2001 09:38 PM</font>
1. Branching threads have less repetition of content.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>how so? if you have branches, you can't know what everyone has wrote easily(see #3)
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>2. Readers can look at the tree and see specificaly which posts they have not read yet.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>this is doable on our forum right now. if you have visited a thread before and now has new posts, you know it in the thread summary page
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>3. Instead of having to load a whole thread, you load a post.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>and when you want to read another post, you load it clicking on an link. if a thread has 40 posts, you have to make 40 clicks(instead of 1)
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>4. Forums like this tend to hav more thoughtful posts and less spam.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>and they tend to be much easier to spam since every post takes up screen space
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited January 02, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 21:36									#24
	Put an end to popups!

Mark, get with the program! Don't make me go back to the Addicted board.

	02-01-2001 21:38									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SlowThinker on 01-01-2001 09:53 PM</font>
GP,
I have read past threads a little. I like the special way how you tries to persuade all people.

By the way, I have talked with DanQ right now. He is preparing the system of subthreads. He told me he would kick out of Apolyton all people that don't support subthreads.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>


Good work. It'll be a lot easier to keep track of things without all those malcontents posting.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by GP (edited January 02, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 21:55									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

Post 25
Let's try subthreads now </P>

Note: I won't talk about my idea about limited subthread system I need for my special dip/spy thread. I will concentrate to full multilevel subthread system. </P>

Update:
If you want to study the content then go to Post 40 on page 2. This post remains here as
a model of usenet branching system.</P></FONT> <TABLE CELLSPACING=0 BORDER=0 WIDTH=624> <TR><TD VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=5>

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>1 </FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=1>GP:</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2> Branching threads have less repetition of content.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

1.1 MarkG: how so? if you have branches, you can't know what everyone has wrote easily(see #3)</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="6%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="94%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

1.1.1 SlowThinker: You placed your note badly! Your post is not related to "repetition of content". You didn't answer the post.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="9%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="91%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

1.1.1.1 MarkG: If you cant easily know what everyone has posted then it is very likely taht you will repeat something that has already been posted(content repitition)</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="88%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

1.1.1.1.1 SlowThinker: I understand. I will answer in 3.2.1.1 (a link could be here)</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

1.2 SlowThinker: I agree. In current system, people often doesn't read all the thread if the thread changed much since their last visit and people don't search for old threads. Needless posts and threads arise then.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=5>

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>2. GP: Readers can look at the tree and see specificaly which posts they have not read yet.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

2.1 MarkG: this is doable on our forum right now. if you have visited a thread before and now has new posts, you know it in the thread summary page</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="6%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="94%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

2.1.1 SlowThinker: I agree. Arranging by date/time is an advantage over subthread system. But this don't cooperate well with another good thing: post editing. But there is a solution: to add buttons "First", "Last", "Previous", "Next" (and "Show posts added since my last visit" with cookies). This solution is implementable for both systems (the current system (editing would be more useful then) and the subthread system).</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="9%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="91%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

2.1.1.1>But this don't cooperate well with another good thing: post editing.</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana">
</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>MarkG: most of the time edits in post are to correct a misspell or something like that, not to add something completely new to the post</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="88%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

2.1.1.1.1 SlowThinker: Since everybody know that bulk of people won't find out they edited it. So I repeat 2.1.1: editing would be more useful then. Of course, some problems would appear if you would try to change "incremental" system to fully functional "editable" system, but i believe theses problems would be resoluble.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="88%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

2.1.1.1.2 SlowThinker: Look 6</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=5>

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>3 GP: Instead of having to load a whole thread, you load a post.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.1 MarkG: and when you want to read another post, you load it clicking on an link. if a thread has 40 posts, you have to make 40 clicks(instead of 1)</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="6%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="94%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.1.1 SlowThinker: Don't confuse subthread system and the possibility to load only subjects. These two things are independent. (Even in usenet you may load full newsgroup.)</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="9%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="91%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.1.1.1 MarkG: in almost all cases, this is how branched forums work though...</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="88%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.1.1.1.1 SlowThinker: That is not a reason not to change this habit.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.2 SlowThinker: I don't know how you imagine the system intimately. If you suppose only one post may be loaded for one click, then I agree with MarkG. Solution 1: It would be better not to change the practice and load a full topic. Solution 2: An improvement might be brought: you could set the desiderative level (depth) for the load at the forum page. Solution 3 (best!): You could load full topic and open and close threads like in Windows's Explorer.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="6%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="94%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

> 3.2.1 Solution 3 (best!): You could load full topic and open and close threads like in Windows's Explorer.
MarkG: you still have the issue of having to move up and down the screen to see the new posts in various branches of a thread</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="9%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="91%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.2.1.1 SlowThinker: I agree that the solution with Buttons "First", "Last"... (2.1.1) is not fully ideal (since it doesnt provide fully synoptic view), but dont forget buttons "Show posts added since my last visit" (I imagine this would provide a filter; posts would remain not to arranged by date, they would keep a branching structure). Besides, for quick information about recent history, you could provide a special "History" window with posts arranged by date.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="9%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="91%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

3.2.1.2 SlowThinker: Look 6</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=5>

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>4 GP: Forums like this tend to hav more thoughtful posts and less spam.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

4.1 MarkG: and they tend to be much easier to spam since every post takes up screen space</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="6%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="94%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

4.1.1 SlowThinker: Do you mean a large indentation of very deeply positioned post? 1.I think that short indent would be sufficient. 2. I don't suppose there would be posts with very high level. 3. You could limitate the maximum level.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="9%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=3> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="91%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=2> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

4.1.1.1 MarkG: why have to limit to probably a small number(5 levels? 10 levels?) when you can have threads with 200-300 posts easily? </FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="88%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

4.1.1.1.1 SlowThinker: Hierarchical structure may be built two ways:
a) The way equal to this post. All answers to one post have the same depth, Answer to a post induces an increment of depth.
b) The way of Post 40. All posts (starting post and answers) concerning one problem/scope of debate have the same depth (i will call them "type A" for future reference). Subproblems (minor problems/scopes of debate that have the same basis as main problem) causes indentation and an increment of depth (type B). Problems with a completely different subject of conversation start new thread or are inserted into apropriate area/thread.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="88%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

4.1.1.1.2 SlowThinker: Look 6</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="3%" VALIGN="MIDDLE"> <P ALIGN="CENTER"></TD> <TD WIDTH="97%" VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=4> <FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>

4.2 SlowThinker: I think this note should be connected to 1 (Branching threads have less ...). It is a similar idea.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=5>

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>5 SlowThinker: I don't think subthreads should be used flatly in all cases. And anybody could decide to allow subthreads for his post/thread.</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD VALIGN="MIDDLE" COLSPAN=5>

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>6 SlowThinker: (This is an example of type C of point</FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=1> </FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana">4.1.1.1.1 </FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=1> ) </FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>You may think that the system would be too complicated and that people woudnt want to change the habit and to get used to new system. But, the man is very adaptive being. Transition to the new system would represents inconsiderable step for man who learned to use a computer, the Internet, the system of current forum... </FONT></TD> </TR> </TABLE>

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 04, 2001).]</font>

	02-01-2001 23:42									#27
	Put an end to popups!

Last update of Post 25 was performed on January 04, 2001 4:00 AM

If you would like to continue to answer to post 25 using subthread system , then
1. Go to "edit" icon of Post 25 and copy the content to your editor.
2. Edit it. (I am using html tables to indent paragraphs. I suggest you to use wysiwyg html editor. Then replace all end-of-line markers by spaces. (You have to do this replacement: Apolyton treats all end-of-line markers (that were generated by the html-editor) as BR html-tags))
3. Post it. I will clean my old version then.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 04, 2001).]</font>

	03-01-2001 07:35									#28
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Just my 2 cents - my first thoughts on poster ability to delete posts was that it would enable trolls to run rampant then delete all evidence of what they did. Sure they can edit their posts now but the evidence that they actually DID post still remains.

Just a thought there.

	03-01-2001 09:08									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Busta Nova,
Look at my LINK: <a href=/forums/"#post4">previous post</a>. I asked Provost Harrison who is "GP" there. But GP started to post to this thread later on.
I think it was useful not to disturb incoming readers and to clean the post. But the post still make this page longer now.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 03, 2001).]</font>

	03-01-2001 09:10									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A tip related to my suggestion nr. 7): If you place the cursor over "edit" icon, your browser shows you a link adress on the status line. "ReplyNum=" is the number of the post.