05-07-2004 08:31									#1
	Effective Use of Air Power Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've been playing around with air units in the late game and am wondering whether anyone has found much use for them.

In naval engagements air power / missiles are the ultimate weapons but in land engagements they don't seem to be good for much beyond trashing enemy cities. Personally I'd rather spend my resources on tanks / artillery, capture the enemy city and either keep or sell the improvements that air units would otherwise destroy.

Has anyone found an effective use for air units in non-naval engagements??

	05-07-2004 08:54									#2
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Well in C3C bombers can now kill units. I use them to break up enemy incursions into my territory and then send in the armor to mop up and launch counterattacks.

You have to build fighters to protect your airspace because AAA is not enough.

Just a few random thoughts on what I do with airpower.

	05-07-2004 10:19									#3
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Bomb resources. Oil and Rubber first of all. Use carrier to get into range if necessary. Second choice is any lux resource.

You may be able to knock out some key railroad to slow the enemy down a bit.

If two enemies are at war, bomb the no-mans land around conquered cities. Ruin as much as possible to deny it from enemy. Obviously, only if you cna't reach this area with a tank or whatever.

	05-07-2004 11:56									#4
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Helps defeat the AIs Stack of death, first use massed artillery to bring them down to 1-2 hp, then bring in the bombers and lay them to waste. All this without ever jeopardizing your land units.

Bombers also help in cutting down the AIs transportation network, which is of paramount importance when trying to get a foothold on a big AIs island when both have similar techs. When tanks and infantry are in the game not bombing the rails to your captured/to-be-captured city will mean that the AI can bring all the free units it has next/into the city in one turn and still attack. This usually will mean that his tanks will slowly chew away the infantry defenders thanks to blitz, fast and good attack.

	05-07-2004 15:44									#5
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Hmmm...,

I find that when I assualt an enemy Civ after railroads they will usually throw their entire offensive capability at my incursion on the first turn after war is declared - especially if I attacking from the sea. Assuming I survive the first turn the AI's units then just hide in their cities where I can't bomb them directly.

I can see their value in a defensive scenario although I think artillery using your railroads can achieve the same effect and do not need to waste time re-basing between cities.

In an offensive scenario I'm generally far stronger than my openent otherwise I wouldn't be attacking. I would rather build units that are effective at attacking fortified units in cities rather than soft targets that I can roll up with regular land units.

I like the idea of bombing strategic and luxury resources, although again if my incursion is still rolling forward after the AI's initial counter attack I will probably seize those resources with ground units within the first few turns of fighting.

I'm hoping someone can prove me wrong, but air units just don't seem useful to an army that is already winning.

	05-07-2004 21:39									#6
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Of course air units aren't useful when you're already winning. Air units are for there for the first few turns of a war when you're evenly matched (or more likely behind).

	05-07-2004 21:48									#7
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Imho, if you can achieve air superiority the game is almost won, you can destroy any enemy unit without any risk to lose a battle.
IMHO lethal bombing has unbalanced the game, also because AI is very bad at using it (does not build enough bombers!), if you can get flight first the game is won, if you are not the first, you may need some more time and a more challenging fight, but using wisely your air force at the end you win.

	06-07-2004 00:02									#8
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As Mariola alludes to, air power used "properly" changes the face and nature of warfare. Massed bombers can strip a city of all its defenses with a smaller chance of losses than land forces, especially since the first units injured are enemy air units, if present. That allows a single land unit to take the city with no risk to itself. Add cruise missiles to the mix, especially with their four tile range, and you can eliminate the chance of offensive losses altogether. My target priority in the first turn of a war, assuming all are within range of my air force, goes as follows:

1. Enemy air power and sea power, in that order. Take full control of the skies and you can move the war forward at your own pace, with very few losses, if any.

2. Oil/Uranium/Aluminum, in that order. This is the same principle as above, denying the enemy the ability to strike deep into your territory, as well as denying him any strong fastmovers.

3. Cities in order of invasion. Ideally leaving the city defenseless and using only one unit to take it. Given the loose city spacing of AI's, this keeps 4xCav armies useful until the game's end. If I'm going to use a 4xMA army to take it, I'll leave a defender and begin bombing the next city.

4. Rubber. Moving down the list of units I want to deny my enemy.

5. Roaming enemy units. Just for the thrill of destruction and chipping away a little bit more at his available forces.

6. Improved tiles, whether to cut a trade route, split an empire or just keep AI workers busy. One trick I like is to bomb an improved mountain. The AI will flock any available workers to it, allowing me to capture them all with one unit.

	06-07-2004 09:16									#9
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So when bombing cities, at what point do you start inflicting damage on defending units??

I can bomb the same city 4-5 times and only destroy improvements that i would have prefered to capture rather than demolish

	06-07-2004 09:32									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Rowick Hepan So when bombing cities, at what point do you start inflicting damage on defending units?? I can bomb the same city 4-5 times and only destroy improvements that i would have prefered to capture rather than demolish

Last I recall, bombing cities is 50% units and 25% each for improvements and cits. If you hit an improvement and there ARE no improvements then no effect.
Of course, there is also no effect if your bombardment strength doesn't "win" vs. the unit strength or the 16 improvement-or-cit strength. I do not remember whether city target strengths are adjusted due to city size, etc. for air-bombardment defense.

	06-07-2004 19:17									#11
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4-5 times isn't anywhere close to enough bombardment to accomplish your goal. Depending on how well defended it is, I'll typically throw 15-25 bombers at a city. Sometimes the first one damages a unit, sometimes not. If you go with a bombardment strategy, you have to resign yourself to rebuilding everything in the city. That way, you may be pleasantly surprised.

	16-07-2004 10:49									#12
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I am not fond of bombers, I find I tend to lose too many to fighters, so I mass artillery against cities to capture them with units, some cities I will mass armies of tanks and MA against for a quicker victory, my aim is to capture cities without any losses if at all possible (my aim needs to be that as I use Democratic gov't almost exclusively)

	16-07-2004 11:13									#13
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well I use the fighter-bombers in the WWII Scenario with great delight

they really cut through the Zero's and hit the enemy hard

Would be great to see them available elsewhere

As to other planes, I love getting the f-14's up and about, but they are not the greatest at getting results

	16-07-2004 16:17									#14
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The best use of airpower is to prepare a landing area for invasion. I build about 10-12 carriers and make them the focal point of between 2 and 4 task forces. Each task force is heavily escorted. When the invasion time becomes near, the task forces enter the enemies waters and start bombing luxuries and resources. After those are taken out (not just cut but also all roads leading to them) then I start bombing the road network, particulary around the capitol. Next comes their other infrastructure, esp radar towers. Finally I destroy all of the roads leading to the invasion site and pound the targeted city(ies) to town size and eliminate their barracks.

	16-07-2004 20:03									#15
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Trev, once you have rocketry, cruise missiles will destroy any fighters in cities four tiles from the border, and naval bombardment can handle those in coastal cities without the possibility of retaliation. You may also want to build some fighters to "fly escort", i.e. send the fighters on bombing runs first to draw out enemy fighters.

	16-07-2004 22:00									#16
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If I am invading somewhere by sea I will sit a few carriers full of bombers (along with some fighters, battleships etc. for protection) near the city and bomb every railroad and road within at least two spaces if not more. Then take the city with marines and load it up with defenders, counterattackers, and more bombers. As the AI dumbly inches through the no-man's-land you've created you can bombard them at your leisure. This is very helpful in repelling the counterattack of a strong enemy. For example lets say he has enough troops to send a SOD 200 strong at you. Leaving all roads you would have to repel all of these attackers. Without roads leading up to the city you will have two turns to repel the attack at worst:

1) D-Day turn: Do whatever you have to do to take the city with a bunch of marines. A dozen of them ought to do it with a little bombardment if this is a surprise attack, but that's a whole other topic. Move a bunch of other transports in and unload some defenders and artillery. Use the artys to take out all of the roads just outside the 9-tile radius. At most three transports full (18) will be needed. Bring carriers full of bombers in and use them to bombard the next ring of roads around the city. This should take at most six carriers full (24) of bombers. Also fly in any additional bombers and fighters you can spare.

2) D-Day +1: The AI began his counterattack predictably by throwing all of his attackers at you. Lets say there are 50 three-move attackers right next to you and 150 two-move attackers two spaces away. Both will be able to attack you next turn, but did not attack you this turn. Now you can whittle away these attackers. If there are MA attacking you you'll want to bombard them first to get as many as possible down to one or two hitpoints. All of the MAs you bombard this low will retreat instead of attacking. I think if you only knock off one hitpoint they may attack anyway. Next bombard the tanks and MI two spaces away. Any of them which have a hitpoint knocked off should retreat. Notice that for all of this bombardment, artys, bombers, and battleships can hit either the two- or three-move attackers and any destroyers, cruisers, etc can hit the three-move attackers. Even if you only bombard 50 of the attackers you had a whole extra turn to transport additional defenders in to repel the counterattack and you forced fifty of the attackers to retreat. If you bombard 100 or more attackers you may send nearly have of the counterattackers home to heal up and try again (or maybe just fortify). Before the end of this turn rush an airport and of course move in any more bombers you have built.

3) D-Day +2: If you had enough defenders the AI counterattack didn't do a whole lot. Since you have an airport you can airlift more troops to the city. During this turn do some more bombarding of both the second (inevitably much weaker) counterattack wave and any fortified attackers who are waiting to heal up before attacking you.

4) Afterward: Just keep going on destroying counterattackers and then invade the rest of the AI's mainland. There won't be much resistance since you have destroyed their offensive military.

This works even better if you start with a remote city on a peninsula (i.e., one with only four or five squares of railroads leading up to it within a three square radius). Ideally, you would also want a city surrouned by hills of better yet mountains to slow down those attackers even more. If you pick a good city you will have two whole turns before even the fastest of attackers can reach the city to counterattack. And by that time you could airlift lots of units.

Admittedly, this can take a lot of bombardment units but it can be worth it if your enemy is some fascist cranking out units like crazy. Besides its more fun than just dropping your invasion force somewhere and weathering the storm while a huge force counterattacks you.

	22-07-2004 13:38									#17
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In CII vet stealth fighters were my attack unit of choice.

However in CIII I just find bombers too tedious to bother with. If attacking they can fail to destroy anything, they can lose to the air cover or they can destroy improvements which is usally the last thing I want to do to a city I plan to soon own. Even if I am not keeping it I like to sell all the improvements before abandoning.

Worst of all as you cannot move them during rather than between turns they are often not in the right place. This limits there ability to counter large attacks unless you keep huge mumbers of them all round your territory. In a fast moving attack (especially later in the game when using Modern Armour) they just get left behind (together with the artillery which I never bother with building either).

I do occassionally build aircraft specifically to cut off resources etc and to fly to key remote cities to help rush build temples and harbours. Very costly doing this so usually only when city has vital resouce that must be connected.

I do put fighters into cities that are regularly bombarded.
I dont think air power implementation in CivIII comes any where close to reflecting its role in real modern war fare. Tanks; MI and MA are just much more precise and flexible.

	22-07-2004 14:34									#18
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quote: I dont think air power implementation in CivIII comes any where close to reflecting its role in real modern war fare.

I couldn't agree more. They are too costly, and as you said, too tedious to bother with.

I don't agree with your stance on artillery, though. It's excellent for homeland defense against bombarding/pillaging naval units, naval invasions, and before the discovery of Motorized Transportation, it rules the world! (well, not the waves )

	23-07-2004 14:07									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Don Giovanni I couldn't agree more. They are too costly, and as you said, too tedious to bother with. I don't agree with your stance on artillery, though. It's excellent for homeland defense against bombarding/pillaging naval units, naval invasions, and before the discovery of Motorized Transportation, it rules the world! (well, not the waves )

Given a very good starting position I do win (through warfare) at Diety without building any Bombers (or artillery). That can not be right. Any modern (conventional) army without air superiority has a limited life span.

(off topic) I guess I have a bit of a blind spot about artillery. Its not that I dont use it, I just dont build it as I find I capture so much of it. I do need to use it more actively however, as I tend to fortify it and forget about it.

	27-07-2004 01:08									#20
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If I have an island to myself I personally build almost solely bombers, artillary and some cruise missiles to wipe out nearly any invasion force. recently, i've tried adding to that by only bombing from the sea when at war. But I like prolonging games, so maybe thats just me...