05-07-2004 09:57									#1
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What bugs you most about the AI. There are a few things that bother me.

Bad military decisions.

Wrong type of units used in military actions.

Vendetta on you when they have NO chance of even putting up a fight.

The very warlike nature of any faction in the lead (and a some not even close to the lead) is a sad comment on mankind.

Many or most won’t surrender ‘til they have only a few bases left.

Most of the time if you're too powerfull, no one will pact with you unless there are in really bad shape and under attack.

I guess general stupidity sums up most the problems with the AI.

	05-07-2004 10:47									#2
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make it into a poll Fender

	05-07-2004 11:02									#3
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The AI doesn't bother me much. What really bothers me is having to confirm destroy farms/forets etc under a borehole/condensor. Not for the first former, but for the Nth former assisting on the job.

	05-07-2004 14:55									#4
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Annoyances about the AI:
When they f*$@ base-push me, I invade them, and my integrity goes down.
I mean WTF?

	05-07-2004 19:47									#5
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That I agree with, but in my current game it was so satisfying to finally get my own back on the AI.

I'm running FM so my war with the Hive is on a defensive footing, but with my continuous ICS push, I got bases progressivly closer to his territory. I got one base so that there was just one square between his and my base, sent a whole heap of attack rovers sitting inside my new base. Next turn, invasion without the associated drone problems and without the inefficiency of leaving FM.

	05-07-2004 22:34									#6
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I heard Kody mention something about a line of bases progression.
You might be on to something there, Mr. Burns.

	06-07-2004 05:02									#7
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Thats the thing about AI stealing territory, any human who is half decent at dense base spacing pratically ignores territory, because every base pushes the AI territory back. In general, humans are far more agressive at stealing territory than AI's.

Thing that actually annoys me most about the AI is they won't plant enough forests or build enough treefarms, and they are so obsessive about building units they end up using 80% of their minerals on support, and having garrisons of aircraft under FM....

	06-07-2004 05:21									#8
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Would have been better to make the AI moddable, eh?

	07-07-2004 19:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Annoyances about the AI: When they f*$@ base-push me, I invade them, and my integrity goes down. I mean WTF?

Just provoke them with a single probe team to declare war. Problem solved, huh?

	07-07-2004 20:46									#10
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many things bother me.

Like when they propose lobpsided tech trades. Progenitor psych for industrial automation or some other level 3 or level 4 tech. I actually did agree to a trade like that. Just to keep on their good side.

Or like how the AI cannot use navies effectively or launch amphibious assaults or use transports at all really.

Or how the AI cannot coordinate attacks of large numbers of units.

There are many things that I don't like about the AI.

	07-07-2004 22:13									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Would have been better to make the AI moddable, eh?

All that needed to be done was to have the interface scriptable so that we could make AI bots. Yeah, so AI bottable, rather than moddable. I can understand why they didn't release the source code of the AI. It may look bad from our perspective, but it was a lot of work for them. Also, SID games never release source, as far as I can tell. I think it's an intellectual superiority thing: "Noone would be able to think of this themselves"

-S

	08-07-2004 00:51									#12
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I'm with Blake, the AI's worst features are it's loathsome overcommitment of it's own support, the feeble and halfhearted terraforming, and the absolutely inept management of their resources altogether.

	08-07-2004 11:21									#13
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The fusion of two things is currently irritating me. I know its not about the AI, but I feel the need to vent.

The first is the way fungus is placed. Storyline, it is said to be in 'beds', but the way it looks is simply lines and lines of Fungus.

The second thing is that for whatever reason, it always takes my units annoyingly long to cross a single line of fungus, sometimes. This is usually most annoying early in the game when I need some raw base advantage, and my pod takes 3 or 4 turns just to get passed that damned square. Its lame, but I find myself saving every turn in those early games - not to avoid hitting worms, but so that Pod 1 can get to the base location before turn 15.

/rant

	09-07-2004 02:40									#14
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quote: Originally posted by ESpark The first is the way fungus is placed. Storyline, it is said to be in 'beds', but the way it looks is simply lines and lines of Fungus.

I believe the "beds" are actually represented by a single tile, not multiple tiles as you are assuming. A single tile would have to represent several miles worth of fungus. We, in our 'god view' sometimes forget this point.

quote: Originally posted by ESpark ....and my pod takes 3 or 4 turns just to get passed that damned square....

So does everyone else. I have a hard time being irritated by something that at least is inherently fair.

I find the AI refusing peace when they don't even have a chance of defending itself (i.e. all military units are destroyed), or ridiculously imbalanced trades to be the most maddening. 50ec for Air Power? I don't think so.

	09-07-2004 10:12									#15
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quote: A single tile would have to represent several miles worth of fungus.

I thought a little about that. How big are squares?

quote: So does everyone else. I have a hard time being irritated by something that at least is inherently fair.

The AI (all I ever play against) doesn't seem to.

	09-07-2004 18:52									#16
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Yeah, how wide are the squares?

	09-07-2004 21:41									#17
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If we use the Earth as a guide, its circumference is about 24,000 miles or 38,500 km. Divide that by 80 squares (medium world) and that's about 300 miles/square, or 480 km/square. There really ought to be 100 times as many squares if we want to make it "realistic" as far as the scale of current-day cities.

	09-07-2004 22:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by ESpark The AI (all I ever play against) doesn't seem to.

Start up a game in the editor, watch the AI. The AI will almost always go around fungus. On the times they go through it, they do get bounced out too.

	09-07-2004 22:12									#19
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What bugs me is not knowing how the factions see each other. Like in CIV3 where you can see who's at war and who has an alliance.

	09-07-2004 22:20									#20
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Espark – what you with the xenofungus was done on purpose. The fungus is supposed to act at conduits for Planetmind, and as such are interconnected. If you look at Map of Planet you will see that the fungus occurs in lines, and that these lines cross each other. This is Planet’s neural net, and it is the manifestation of the integrated (and engineered) ecology of Chiron. It is supposed to be this way across land and sea, and generally is even on randomly created maps.

As for entering fungus tiles, you will find that if you have a positive Planet rating you will be able to enter the tile more often than not. Someone recently tested this and found that you could enter as, say, Gaians about 80% of the time. This seems true to me, since I play Gaians a lot. Planet-neutral factions have more of a 50-50 chance, and it seems that those with a negative Planet rating (Believers or marketeers) have less than 50-50. When you think about it this makes sense. This is, after all, an integrated and hostile alien ecology, and a small group of humans might have a real tough time getting through. But, a faction that understands Planet and how the fungus works will have an easier time making their way through.

Again, what you see is as planned. If it irritates you then play Gaians or Cult for a while!

Hydro

	09-07-2004 22:29									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Minty What bugs me is not knowing how the factions see each other. Like in CIV3 where you can see who's at war and who has an alliance.

If you have the factions infiltrated with a probe, have the governorship, or have the Empath Guild, you will see this info by right-clicking on the commlink frequency of the faction and choosing 'faction profile'

	09-07-2004 22:49									#22
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bah! ignore

	09-07-2004 23:13									#23
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quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda If we use the Earth as a guide, its circumference is about 24,000 miles or 38,500 km. Divide that by 80 squares (medium world) and that's about 300 miles/square, or 480 km/square. There really ought to be 100 times as many squares if we want to make it "realistic" as far as the scale of current-day cities.

Planet is somewhat larger than earth though according to the planets.txt file:

quote: Planetary constants Earth Planet Ratio Surface area m2 5.10E+14 7.18E+14 1.41

meaning tiles are about 520 miles/square or 680 km/square

	10-07-2004 00:14									#24
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Just FYI, this is ESpark. Did an old search, realized that I must have forgotten I had this, older, account when I regged. Contacted the forum guys so they can get rid of the other account.

quote: Originally posted by livid imp Start up a game in the editor, watch the AI. The AI will almost always go around fungus. On the times they go through it, they do get bounced out too.

I've done just that, and oddly enough, I get the exact opposite to be true - they go right through, not a problem. Ever. Morgan with FM? No problemo. Dee with Green? No problem.

Player? Problem.

Its no matter - its wrong, so I fixed it. Reload until it works properly.

	10-07-2004 02:54									#25
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quote: Originally posted by EternalSpark I've done just that, and oddly enough, I get the exact opposite to be true - they go right through, not a problem. Ever. Morgan with FM? No problemo. Dee with Green? No problem.

Hmm. I swear I remember watching the AI bounce repeatedly off the fungus. Well, if not, I stand corrected. I'm going to check again tonight.

	10-07-2004 03:16									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Qwerty88 meaning tiles are about 520 miles/square or 680 km/square

Damn, that is even worse than I imagined. A mere six tiles of fungus would run from L.A. to New York.

	12-07-2004 05:30									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Don't forget the AI crawling fungus squares...

Or the AI PBing their own bases...

Or for existing at all...

	14-07-2004 07:47									#28
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The AI seems to explore faster than I can, and only an easier time crossing fungus really explains it.

	14-07-2004 21:48									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Qwerty88 Planet is somewhat larger than earth though according to the planets.txt file: meaning tiles are about 520 miles/square or 680 km/square

That says surface area is 1.41 times as much, which means the circumference is more like 1.19 times as much. So 360 miles/square, 580 km/square.

	14-07-2004 23:49									#30
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I always gathered that Earth should be on large size while Chiron is then the huge size.

That earth map I made was just doable on large size, although it is impossable to make Europe as it should...