05-07-2004 10:25									#1
	Hello! Help a new guy, anyone? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hi all,

I've played Civ2 for a long time but am just now trying to learn how to create scenarios. (FW is the version I use.)

I am stuck on something dealing with terrain editing, and I really have looked far and wide for help before asking in person... (guess I'm hot using the right keywords or something) What I need is an explaination of what the different "slots" or spaces in the terrain.gif file mean - I know how to edit an object in by copy/paste, but most of the time they don't work, as if I were supposed to have edited multiple slots but didn't. I'm having a heck of a time trying to find out how the slots are linked or whatever else is happening.

Thanks!

	05-07-2004 14:34									#2
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Are you talking about terrain1.gif or terrain2.gif?

Terrain1.gif is fairly straightforward - you have the base plus the possible resources - if you change it you'll see the difference in game (please note that if you're using the FW editor the changes are saved to a .bmp which is read in by default rather than the .gif you started with).
It does contain a few surplus images though which don't show up when you're playing.

Terrain2.gif has 16 variable terrain slots (which are superimposed on the appropriate base) for possible permutations - most of which are essentially unconstrained - ie: you do have to edit all of them to have a consistent change occur in-game.



[Edit: Rereading that I'm not sure if it answered your question or not ... Are you in fact using the FW graphics editor (one thing the FW editor is actually useful for ) or something else?]

	06-07-2004 04:01									#3
	Remove this text

If you're using the FW editor, you need to reload to see changes, like it says. Barring that, it's probably a problem with ocean, forest, mountain, or hill terrain. The "graphic" for those four is just a base filler that has other graphics stuck on top of it. Usually those other graphics all but obscure the base-ocean obscures its base entirely, so there's no point in changing it at all. In FW, I believe the graphics to go on top are under "edit miscellaneous" in the TE. I'm not sure, I don't use the editor. I just change the graphics with Paint.

	06-07-2004 06:44									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Be sure to check out the Scenario League website for a plethora of info on modifying the game files. Most questions can be answered there.

Check under "Tips"

http://sleague.apolyton.net/

	10-07-2004 17:53									#5
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Thanks guys... I've been looking through the Tips threads and downloading scenerios to compare the Rules.txt and other files. To answer the questions above, it's terrain1.xxx that I'm working with now. (The irrigation, farmland, road, and rail tiles specifically.)

The editor - I'm trying to learn how to edit with the FW editor and by moding the image files directly. A lot of what I download won't work with the FW editor; they don't line up properly or the colors are messed up real bad. I use Ricoh Photostudio to edit the images. (I'm trying to get Paint Shop Pro but it's 55megs and I'm still on dial-up!)

Between the two I'm making a little progress.

One thing I can't figure out though - How to change the "default military unit"... From a certain point on, newly founded cities will be building mech. infantry units by default. Can this be changed?

Thanks again!

	10-07-2004 20:11									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Well first off, I think you should convert up to Civ2 Multiplayer Gold Edition. Civ2 MGE allows you to play all FW scenarios as well as every other post MGE scenario and mod out there.

The patch is here: *mysteriously absent URL*

Sorry Harry, Apolyton doesn't like piracy.

Secondly, if PSP 8 is to large, try opening up MS-Paint, cut and paste the palette picture from the palette tips page, and then start making your modifications out of that same .bmp file. You will have to save the terrain and units file as .bmp in your scenario folder and eliminate the old .gif files in the scenario folder (not the Civ2 directory originals!) in order for the files to be ok for playing in the game. Don't try to save the files as .gif using MS-Paint, the color conversion just gets screwed up.

Lastly, there is no default military unit. The Civ2 AI just builds the best defensive unit with the best stats it can that late in the game. Trying modifying the rules.txt unit stats to get different unit types.

Anyways, welcome to the club!

Last edited by Mercator on 11-07-2004 at 01:31

	11-07-2004 05:09									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The 'patch' which converts Civ 2: FW and Civ 2: TOT to the superior Civ 2: MGE can be downloaded from the civ2 section at www.civfanatics.com. However, it's my understanding that this is less then fully lawful (not that Microprose and its sucessors has taken any action against it in the 5 years or so it's been up on civfanatics).

(I hope that this is vauge enough for you Merc)

	11-07-2004 05:13									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

BASTARD!

I thought this was all on the up & up? My mistake. Well anyways, if Harmonic really wants to to go all out I suggest he go buy a copy of Civ2 MGE.

	11-07-2004 05:45									#9
	Remove this text

Well, that isn't really vague enough either, Case... Those patches are piracy, plain and simple, so even just mentioning them is questionable (and, um, I can NOT tolerate anyone calling MGE superior over ToT )... And *cough* I do have a bit of a personal vendetta against the patch too (not the creator per se).

But well, the patches are out there, and pretty hard to miss too. I could go and ruthlessly ban any reference to them, but since I'm only limited to the SL that's not gonna make a whole lot of difference.

So, um, well...

(sorry for threadjacking your thread Harmonic )

	11-07-2004 06:08									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Case The 'patch' which converts Civ 2: FW and Civ 2: TOT to the superior Civ 2: MGE

Now there's a piece of misinformation if ever I saw it - especially from a scenario design perspective.

	11-07-2004 07:07									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

"cedric greene" patch



This is why Markos doesn't like me much. I am too much of a dirty hippy.

	11-07-2004 09:47									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Mercator I could go and ruthlessly ban any reference to them, but since I'm only limited to the SL that's not gonna make a whole lot of difference.

You mean that Markos doesn't pay you guys per moderation?

	11-07-2004 14:19									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hijacking my thread? No problem! The extra attention is highly in my favor.

Actually fellows, I already have Civ2MGE; and a legitimate copy at that. I don't use it though. Never have, really.

Why? Primarily, I guess, is because the first three editions don't require the cd to run. Furthermore, the system's sound resources are left free, and I like to play music during the game... some good old Metallica ads a lot of atmosphere during warfare...

Anyway, on top of all that, my wife is also a civ freak so, she is always using the MGE disk.

Oh yeah... There's also a bug in it that I don't like; The Enemy ships are visible during the game even if they're not attacking. Really slows the game down.


I guess the next question is: Is there a patch for MGE that fixes these? I would also need a no-cd code.

A few more things... Does Paint Shop Pro have a grid function like MS Paint?

I'm looking for a unit, a spy unit that is either crawling on all fours or prone... Has anyone seen one?

Thanks a million!

Last edited by harmonic on 11-07-2004 at 15:13

	11-07-2004 21:12									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

There is a no CD patch on CivFanatics I think.

Also, try copying your KINGS folder from the CD into your Civ2 directory. That way you can view wonders and diplomacy animations.

You may also want to search for the latest patch too, but I'm pretty sure you can turn off the enemy movement view option.

Yes, PSP does have a grid function.

A prone spy? try looking in the graphic forums. I don't remember one being prone or kneeling.

	12-07-2004 19:07									#15
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I've been looking through all the graphics posted around here... lots of mighty fine work! And very time consuming as well. (I did see out in the forums that it was very time consuming - no joke!)

While we're all here, let me beg a favor; A little critique on my concept?

It started with the crawling spy thing the other day - I had this image in my head of a spy tunneling under the city walls. The idea grew into a concept that I haven't seen anywhere... yet, that is. I'm not even sure that the graphics can be edited to what I need. Anyway, what I want to do is...

"Planet of the Ants"

No, I don't mean that all the people and units will be made to look like insects in tiny tanks or whatever, but rather a drastic change in the terrains and such.

Just imagine your common mail-order ant farm.

You have a flat map, with "sky" tiles filling in the top third of the map, and "earth" tiles taking up the bottom two thirds. A 2D representation just like an ant farm. The sky tiles would be modified ocean tiles I would assume, and the earth tiles... well they could be any mix but all colored nearly the same "earth brown" or whatever color you want, maybe an off white sand color. Road and rail tiles would be modified to look like ant tunnels.

A few things I can see right away that could be problematic are:

Tunnels being ugly and confusing clusters late in the game...

Coastal tiles - getting a "flat" coastline (it would be the horizon in this case)...

Irrigation and farming - I think this will be pretty tricky. What I'm thinking is that both irr. and farm tiles would be edited to look the tunnel tiles, only filling up one whole grid space instead of slicing through a space as a tunnel would. But, since we're in 2D here, it wouldn't look right to have workable terrain under a city.


So, whatcha think? I read something about immobile millitary units that I think might be useful with the tunnel & farmland issues. The immobile unit info looked rather complicated... is this the only way, you think? (It would be nice if you could just "turn of" all diagonal movement.)

As for the coastline/horizon issue... I haven't got a clue, as I haven't tried to edit the terrain2 file yet. I don't know about the win conditions either. (I hope that bridge will be crossable when I get there...)

Sort of a post-script idea here; all of the earth tiles could be made into immobile millitary units. Then, in order to build a road, that tile would have to be blasted (attacked & killed) and cleared before an improvement could be made! A pretty neat shot of realism, huh?

Well I better be on my way now. Thanks in advance for any advice or wisdom on my scenario concept, and more thanks for the welcome.