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arginine
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A side question: Would it be worth it to get 'secrets of the human brain' so we can upgrade crawlers with our energy (synth, trance)? For 90 EC, a 3 row crawler becomes an 8 row crawler....
We could use 2 upgraded, and 1 regular crawler to build HGP, and 4 upgraded crawlers for PTS, or PEG.
Ideally, we'd be able to trade (or steal) it. I'd see us trying to get it right after IA. We have to get biogenics anyways, and social psych is needed to get ethical calc (creche, demo). I guess the big question is can the SPs wait until we have reached secrets of human brain?
Last edited by arginine on 06-07-2004 at 02:08
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AndiD
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SOO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
May 2004
time: 06:36
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(I split thread from the "Map Room")
So you are thinking about: HGP->VW->PEG->PTS?
If we build the PTS that late how will the chance be that the Angels (or anyone else beelining to IA) will snatch it before us?
The PTS early (as 2nd project) OTOH boosts everything afterwards and allows our "private WP" in building a second former at each base (and maybe rushing RTs ASAP before or after that)
PEG late has the "advantage" that you would have to research 2 extra techs and chances are fewer that anyone will snatch it...
Last edited by AndiD on 06-07-2004 at 15:29
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-SafaN-
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SotHB can also be valuable for the defence against the worms: 10 ec to upgrade from flat scout to trance scout
it will depend on the number of worms though
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:36
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I prefer HGP, PTS, PEG, VW. If we build in that sequence, we might be powerful enough to snag one other, like ME or WP.
The PTS is basically free. It's so powerful, I wouldn't dare not building it right away.
If it looks like we can get HGP, then we should be expanding to at least the 2nd b-limit (assuming Demo, even if we don't switch right away). This means all our cities will be size one, which means PTS will triple our population from 18 to 54. Other factions will have to put more effort into expanding. They'll probably have to go planned and use their 10 mins for a scout.
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jtsisyoda
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COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:36
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We should stay under the 3rd b-limit if we want to GA boom with the HGP. However, I'm not opposed to ICS'ing with HGP, PTS, ad infinitum, not booming, and going momentum after that. With HGP, PTS, Green econ, 1 garrison, there are no riots, no matter how many bases we build. A borehole for every base and we're ready to rock.
SotHB is on the way to Cent Emp if the Gaians want to go Green.
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arginine
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HGP - We can go to b limit 2 instead of 1 without psych. Also, lets us build to b limit 3 instead of 1 for pop booming.
PTS - poof! all of your cities are now size 3. In addition, one drone is taken care of. This will double our faction size and production instantly.
PEG - Effectively increases energy production of entire faction by 50%. A biggie for us cash dependent factions.
VW - gives holo theaters in bases with network nodes. I think that if we can build a net node in a city, we can also build a holo theater in there as well.
I hoped that we'd be able to find someone with secrets of the human brain, then steal or trade for it, so we could use it in time. In single player, a bar will come up saying xxx discovers "secrets of the human brain", and it sparks research, but I don't know if it does in multiplayer.
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arginine
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One of the cities is 20 tiles away. We are on a mass of land >15 x 15. What appears to be an isthmus is about 15 squares away. If we can secure and hold the isthmus, I wouldn't worry too much about Yang.
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arginine
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I guess I am for PTS, because it turns all those size 1 cities into size 3 cities. That means we can make lots of size 1 cities at the beginning, and they become size 3.
This very well suited to Morgan, its pop limit is size 4 anyways.
Grow base size 1 to size 3. At size 3, the colony can pop boom (with some rushed facilities).
2 forest square + 1 farmed moist square + 1 colony pod = size 3 base, making 6 mins and ~11 energy.
To pop boom surround with forest, and add holo theater, rec commons, children's creche, tree farm and hab complex. Add research hospital for the last few pops and let grow to a respectable base.
So, we just spread forest, and have 1 farm per base. It's instant small cities. I envision us spreading up to the 3 b limit.
As finances permit, rush build the needed facilities in a size 3 city, then let it pop boom.
The strat I had posted earlier I did not mean to use for use in this game. ICS, means not using the facilities, which multiply wealth like tree farms and fusion labs. I will start out with lots of cheezy cities, but cities too close in, can be relocated, or used as a size 1 base home for troops outside our borders (I guess like a city with a punishment sphere).
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Mead
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quote:
Originally posted by arginine
One of the cities is 20 tiles away. We are on a mass of land >15 x 15. What appears to be an isthmus is about 15 squares away. If we can secure and hold the isthmus, I wouldn't worry too much about Yang. |
How do we think that we are connected by an inthmus?
Mead
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arginine
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I have thought about PTS vs PEG for a while, and I think we should go PEG, because the PTS can be overcome, but the PEG will be harder to overcome. I base my rationale on the fact that:
1) Energy will be the lifeblood of our economy. The PEG will instantly increase our energy by 50%.
2) When we decide to make a base 'big' we can home say two crawlers to it, and begin rushbuilding stuff. We will start with a children's creche. With democracy, that is +4 growth. Growth will cost 30 nuts. We could do that with a few homed crawlers on farmed rainy squares. We'd have to build at minimum a tree farm, children's creche, hab complex, and rec commons or holo theater needed for growth.
Rush build when 10 minerals become availible (I know it can be sped up, but this keeps it cheaper)
rush creche & turn on the crawlers.
rush theatre (so can go 3 -> 4 if no hab complex & +50% psych)
rush tree farm (free up the crawlers, and get some more bonuses)
rush hab complex (so can really grow!)
rush other happy buildings (rec. commons, research hospital).
Remember, that we need facilities to make content about 1/2 the current pop size in order to get GAs.
Some side benefits to doing this, such as we could do police state (if the ineff aint bad) and support 3 units / base, until we decide to boom. If we want police state, we can just steal the tech from Yang 
This rush build / pop boom will be a VERY expensive process, so having those trade routes would definately be helpful.
The PTS will instantly double the strength of our empire, and provide 1 controlled drone... But it is more of a one time event. I am concerned whom the PTS and its benefits will fall to. Hopefully, it will be no one with good police.
This will have us with a bunch of size 1 cities, until decide to grow them. THE BASES WILL BE GIVEN SUFFICIENT SPACE, THIS IS NOT ICS.
Of course, this could use some testing out...
Last edited by arginine on 13-07-2004 at 07:50
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arginine
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I don't know how aggressive the other humans are, but there are a small number of secret projects people will want to build. There are a total of 4 human factions in the game. Sure, we will probably be the first to IA, but building up the resources needed to build the project (unless we can get trance to upgrade). The other humans are as smart and determined as we are, and they will definately nab some of the desirable SPs. The question is which will they go for? I see the WP being a good draw, and the command nexus probably being a priority for the Spartans. I imagine the PTS is definately desireable, and the PEG would certainly be good for the other factions. I would guess we'd get 2 SPs since we have our energy advantage to get IA first, but building a SP requires lots of effort in the early game. The HGP takes about 6 turns with the first 6 cities and rush building, if all goes well...
I guess if we got trance early somehow, allocated most of our energy to ECON, got the PTS first, which boosts our production, then get HGP and PEG...
I guess the more skilled players will know which SPs to get and why, and I will leave this topic.
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arginine
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Well my aim has been to get the Morganites to come up with a decision on which SP will be best for our team. The PTS will be a good idea I guess, provided we can take advantage of our sudden growth. 27 size 3 bases will make for a nice faction...
I think I just find it shameful for the PEG to go to a less energy appreciative faction. I think I am overestimating the role of energy, even for the Morgan.
Out of curiousity, for those who have played PBEMs before, around which year do the SPs start getting built, and which SPs go first?
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Chaunk
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CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
time: 05:36
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It depends on the game and the players. I've played in games where the HGP has been build in 2120 or possibly even a turn or two earlier. But then I'm playing a game now where it's 2136 and no one has even started an SP. 2130 is usually where the SP rush starts, and if we can start in say 2125, we'll have a huge advantage, and will likely be able to get three SPs.
I disagree with jtsisyoda though on the PTS. I don't think PTS first enables you to get both projects unless you get the PTS very early, 2130 or so. It does increase production, granted, but not significantly enough to grant a "free" SP from it.
For my mind the SP's go like this:
HGP - essential for us. We really need this one to continue to expand in FM. It's not impossible without but it is much harder. Chaunk rating of 5/5
VW - very very nice. It's not essential, but it almost gives an instant golden age in a base with a net node and the HGP. Chaunk rating of 4/5
PTS - The benefits are obvious, but I think we'll face some very stiff competition for this one, and I'm not entirely convinced of the benefits unless we can get it early. If we get it, we need to make it our second project I think, and the earlier the better. 3/5.
PEG - lovely. Not essential of course, but we will indeed get the most benefit out of it, and it'll ramp up out e.c. collection to obscene levels. 4/5.
Anything else is just gravy I think, out of the early to early midgame projects.
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06-07-2004 01:59
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