18-08-2004 03:31									#331
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army vs. fort vet hoplite: wins, 4HP loss
army vs. fort reg hoplite: wins, 2HP loss
==> thessalonica captured

	19-08-2004 10:35									#332
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and back

	19-08-2004 14:36									#333
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400ad

no battles this turn

	19-08-2004 14:47									#334
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dp

	19-08-2004 20:01									#335
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army vs. vet hoplite, won with 2 HP loss
==> pharsalos taken

as i can see, the persians have also taken a city of yours.

It seems clear from the current economic and military situation that rome is ultimately going to win. if you are having fun seeing how long you can hang on, we can keep playing, but if not, you are welcome to call it quits. whichever you would rather do is fine with me.

Last edited by sabrewolf on 19-08-2004 at 20:28

	19-08-2004 23:58									#336
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great, lets call it quits. Well done! I'll congratulate you properly and provide comments on the game in my DAR, which I will hopefully find some time lunchtime tomorrow to update.

	20-08-2004 01:13									#337
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420ad to you.

i didn't see your message until after i played and sent the turn

so how will we continue? will you resign? or will you gift the 2 cities left to another civ and remove your forces for me to take athens? (persia has some units around, maybe leave 2 hoplites inside... my army can take care of them )

thanks for the fun game! it's a pity it wasn't more close, but as it looks, most games completed ended in a similar way: rome overruns greece with armies or massive hordes of cavalry.

looking forward to reading your AAR. i wonder what you had in mind as strategy

	20-08-2004 17:28									#338
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thanks again for the game! at one stage you at got me worried when you suddenly got the tech lead. fortunatly, i was researching engineering, so i could have saved myself. and luckily, you did this whole action shortly before i was about to go to peace with germany and persia. like this, i managed to sue peach for techs and only pay a little gpt to get the remainder.

i think your one big mistake (besides not micromanaging enough ) was going to republic. even with egypt's war chariots and persia's archer-suicide missions, it was harming you on every single attack. it just needs 15 attacks (even if unsuccessful) and you've already lost the war happiness bonus... 15 more and you start feeling WW. and after i took knossos and sparta, you must have been feeling it yet more...

maybe next time

speaking of next time: mike regrets not joining in to au601. maybe you'll want to play him next go? not that i wouldn't want to play you (i'd love to, but you're probably bored by now *smile*) i think i'll go for emperor level next time round. the AI was way too easy in this game, from rexing, research and military point of view

thanks again and cheers!

	26-08-2004 01:47									#339
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so when you officially resign, you still think it's necessary to kill my army? i'm sorry, but that again not clean play. if i had known you wouldn't resign yet, my army wouldn't have been out there.

and you've still got athens

andy, i'm really disappointed

anyway... turn back

	26-08-2004 01:50									#340
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I tried my best to resign. Athens is empty. Help yourself!

And for frigging sakes, chill out.

	26-08-2004 17:26									#342
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mike,
what a conincidence that you're in the tracker thread?
i guess you got told by your mate to come here and laugh.


anyway andy,
if you've got a bit of decency, you'll replay that turn without attacking my army. or we go another turn back and you don't resign, but i capture your cities one by one.

i wouldn't even need to get uptight, if you'd be an honest player... so chill out yourself a play the game with a little bit of pride and don't be a bad loser (there's no shame in losing, but it's pathetic to be a bad loser)

:sigh:

	26-08-2004 18:23									#343
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All right sabrewolf, this nonsense is going to stop now, for once and for all.

I had no idea Mike would be along, at no time did I talk to him about any of your dummy spitting, or point him to this thread.

When it became apparent that you had won, I conceded the game, congratulated you, and said I would congratulate you properly in my DAR write-up, which I will have finished tomorrow. You then asked how we should end the game, I confirmed I would resign by gifting my cities to the AI and leaving Athens empty.

The very next turn I did precisely that - gifted my cities, disbanded all my hoplites and used up my med infs on one of your armies. Athens was empty at the end of the turn. As it worked out, one of the AI's was first to it the very next turn.

I have had enough of you calling me a dirty player, dishonorable, etc. This is simply is not true - as I'm sure anyone else who I PBEM with will confirm.

I have noticed this pattern of behavior of yours. When things aren't quite going your way you create a huge public fuss, accusing people of not playing fair, of ganging up on you because they don't like you, and other such nonsense, much in the same way a child does when they don't get the lollypop.

I think it is best we give PBEM a break for a while, save the 6p2 game, so that this sort of.. hassle.. is avoided. I'm sure we both have better things to do than argue on these boards much to the amusement of everyone else.

I regret having to end what has been a great game in this manner. Good luck in future games.

	26-08-2004 18:46									#344
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you just don't get it, don't you?

saying you're just scouting and then pillaging is not the truth!
saying you'll resign and then attacking isn't the truth either!

which part of this am i misunderstanding? tell me!


and about publicity:
- ironciver: i admitted i shouldn't have blamed people and i apologised... and edited out all the things i shouldn't have said.
- 6p2: dirty playing was here meant towards jshelr who several times mislead me and waited until i built the harbour to demand for haarlem. before that NOTHING was public, but only in emails
- au601: this is not a public thread, it's our tracker thread. under normal circumstances no one comes here (in fact, mike's post was the very first post of someone else in here).


and you've still failed to explain what "using up med infs on one of my armies" after officially resigning has to do with fairplay... resign means surrender... it means END OF BATTLE.

i also think it's a shame that the game had to end like this. i obviously get too uptight about things like this and you just can't admit that some of your moves aren't so... clean...

	26-08-2004 23:22									#345
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

one more post on the topic then

Firslty, my scout in Iron Civer had been wandering about your part of the world for ages. If I recall he was up by your iron and I said I was sending him south. Soon after we declared war so yes I moved him back up and pillaged. If I recall, the use of this tactic was discussed amongst us on MSN and agreed. Sneaky play? Yes. Dirty play? I’m not so sure.

Secondly, why are you so upset about me killing one of your armies? The game is over, who cares if you have an extra army or not? The points will still be the same. The power graph will still be the same.

I don't understand why this is such a big deal, unless you're intending to play on. If you do intend to play on as a single player game, then you should have told me - I would have played out the game until you and the AI had conquered all my cities and taken the associated losses.

Anyway, what constitutes 'dirty play' is not the issue here, although it would be an interesting debate. Why don't you post a thread on the subject to get some feedback? I may even contribute if you are able to keep it civil.

The issue here however is your slander of me. This behaviour is not acceptable and must stop now.

	27-08-2004 01:07									#346
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog one more post on the topic then

last from me too...

quote: Sneaky play? Yes. Dirty play? I’m not so sure.

we've obviously got a different opinion there...

quote: I don't understand why this is such a big deal, unless you're intending to play on. If you do intend to play on as a single player game, then you should have told me - I would have played out the game until you and the AI had conquered all my cities and taken the associated losses.

that's exactly what i intended to do! when theseus surrendered, nbarclay continued on to get a domination victory. i don't know what alexman intends to do, but i actually wanted to finish the game, and i'll still do so. just with 1 army less

i wouldn't make such a fuss if it were the absolute end. i made a fuss because i want to continue and i believe resignation is resignation...
maybe now you understand what i meant...

	27-08-2004 01:41									#347
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf mike, what a conincidence that you're in the tracker thread? i guess you got told by your mate to come here and laugh.

Right guys, this needs to be sorted.

Firstly, Sabre, the only reason I’ve been on the thread was to find out how the game was finished off (I’ve been reading several DAR’s) and i found the closing comments amusing hence my post. Nothing malicious nothing sarcastic, I found the situation amusing.

Secondly, Andydog conceded prior to destroying your army, why doesn’t Andydog replay the turn without killing your army. From your post it doesn’t sound like you’ve continued to play the game so no harm done.

	27-08-2004 02:52									#348
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that's what i asked for:

quote: if you've got a bit of decency, you'll replay that turn without attacking my army. or we go another turn back and you don't resign, but i capture your cities one by one.

i just didn't formulate it very diplomatically... not my first time i lose my "writing temper" (or whatever one calls that)

	28-08-2004 00:42									#349
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andy, thanks for reconsidering, and replaying !