08-07-2004 12:06									#1
	Changes in gameplay between PtW and C3C Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I haven't been (even) lurking here for a while, and so, it may very well be that my question has already been handled in some other thread, but at least I couldn't find such a thread with a quick look around...

So, I finally bought myself C3C. I, of course, knew that there will be new civilizations, units and wonders, and these are naturally also documented in the manual as well. However, I'm also noticing quite many changes in gameplay (un-edited version) compared to PtW that I wasn't aware of. These changes include, at least the following:
- Many worker actions seem to take a different amount of turns now. E.g., mining grasslands with industrious worker now takes 4 turns instead of 3, etc.
- It would seem that galleys get lost at sea more often now (or then I've just been very unlucky).

I'm probably forgetting some things I've noticed during the couple days of playing C3C, but I think there are even more such changes.

Thus, could someone list this kind of "non-advertised" changes in gameplay in this thread, or point me to somewhere, where I can find the info. Thanks in advance!

Oh yeah, I'm playing with the 1.22 patch.

	08-07-2004 21:41									#2
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We do have a thread on the forum with much of the changes documented.

They reduce the industrious trait from IIRC 200% to 150%. Forrest chops time was reduced to 4 turn, 3 if industrious.

They change the tech for sea tiles and ocean tiles to slow down the game.

The numbe of changes from large to small are numberous and many are not documented.

For CivIII player you will see corruption and the FP have been seriously impacted.

	08-07-2004 23:39									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

A couple of bugs crept back in, most prominent that still exist in the latest patch(1.22f) is the sub-bug.

They also added two traits, agricultural and seafaring. Some of the existing civs got their traits changed.

Of the new wonders, Statue of Zeus is probably the most powerful, I build it whenever I can

Trade of contacts were pushed way back into the middle age, same with map-trading. Makes your own exploring even more important.

They even added a couple of governments.

	08-07-2004 23:55									#4
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I never build statute of zeus. I think you need ivory right? I usually don't have that.

	08-07-2004 23:59									#5
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Yes you need ivory. Most of the time it will be unavailable but if it isn't, SoZ really is a no-brainer.

	09-07-2004 01:35									#6
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The next best thing is if it is built on another contient. You hate to see it in the hands of a civ that can use it on you.

	09-07-2004 01:41									#7
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unless they use it on you in the modern age. That's okay.

	09-07-2004 02:39									#8
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It is not the AI that will be doing things to me in the modern ages.

I just would prefer to not fight those AC in the ancient age.

	09-07-2004 11:42									#9
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I obviously knew about the new traits, but haven't yet had the time to test them (I picked my old favorite, the Persians, for my first game of C3C).

So, Industrious has been made a bit less powerful. That will probably affect my choice of civ from now on, although it still seems to be a good trait to have. I must test agricultural in my next game, it really sounds good for my play-style.

Does anyone know about the odds for a galley to sink in ocean, i.e., has this changed, or did I just have bad luck with my suicide galleys?

Also the battle bonuses received by an army was news to me. This will definitely change my attitude towards armies (I used to consider them quite worthless previously).

	09-07-2004 13:19									#10
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IIRC the chances of a curragh sinking in sea/ocean is 50%, but only 25% if you're seafaring.

Once you get a couple of Armies you are almost unbeatable in C3C because of the attack, movement and pillage bonuses, and because the AI doesn't use them.

	09-07-2004 18:44									#11
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quote: So, Industrious has been made a bit less powerful.

IMO, it's taken a significant hit. Instead of a 100% speed bonus, you only get 50%, and now slaves are uneffected - they work at 1/2 the speed of non-industrious workers for all civs. In PTW, slaves worked faster for industrial civs. Additionally, one of the things industrious civs really excelled at in PTW - chopping forest - has been reduced in cost from 10 turns base, to 4 turns base. So in PTW, you gained a 5 turn advantage if you were industrious. Now, you gain 1 turn (3 turns instead of 4).

It's still a decent trait, no doubt. It's just no longer the best (as for "the best" I think things are pretty well balanced now - Agricultural is the one most often cited, but much of its power depends on starting next to a river or lake... if you don't, it's not a monster).

-Arrian

	09-07-2004 19:05									#12
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My favourite change (a bug, really) is that barbs only move to attack units or cities etc to the NW or SE of where they are. Then they will attack regardless of odds. Otherwise they just fortify and wait to be taken out.

	09-07-2004 23:02									#13
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quote: They change the tech for sea tiles and ocean tiles to slow down the game.

You sure about this, vmxa, or did you mean map and communication trading?

Hasn't it always been astronomy enables safe sea travel/trade and either magnetism or navigation (first one learned) enables ocean travel/trade?

	09-07-2004 23:44									#14
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Yes you are correct, I should have stated it that way. The raising of the cost of research to 50 turns also contributes.