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livid imp is offline livid imp
Prince
Gimme a quarter or I'll touch you
Mar 2004
time: 21:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 03:13
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What's your ICS priority? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

So I finally really got a handle on the whole ICS thing. Yea, I know I am slow, but ICS really goes against my min/max nature. Anyway, I have been using the city/borehole checkerboard spacing....ruthlessly efficient.

My question is when maintaining your spacing and you run into a base tile that has a rocky/fungus in it, do you clear the rocky/fungus? Do you just ignore it for now and come back later? If so when do you come back? Do you find it crucial to pre-form the area before you plant a base, or just spread as fast as possible?

I know there are several threads on this already. But I want to get people's most updated opinions and techniques

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 03:34
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A difficult question. I think everyone handles it differently. Placing a base 'off-grid' can screw up a borehole checkerboard, but doesn't have to for any other base but the one 'off-grid'. Typically ICS is about the growth process, rather than about after-the-growth process, when one gets to clean up the mess. Thus, I almost never wait to clean up a square, espcially if: I don't have clean formers, It's rocky and fungified, not essential to pushing my borders or gifting to the AI.

Instead, I just plant the base off-grid and live with it, at least until I've moved the CP wave far beyond it. Then, especially if I have the PTS, I might build CPs at the 'bad base' and disband it while formers prepare the proper square. But that's kinda nitpicky.

-S

Hydro is offline Hydro
King
Winfield, IL, USA
Jun 1999
time: 05:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 06:35
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I ICS to a bit past the bureaucracy limit, unless I’m Yang with PS or have lots of drone control.

My base grid is rather loose, and is violated if a base needs to be established (eg – a CP waiting around is a massive waste of resources). I try to have 2 sectors between bases so they can defend one another, but that gets violated, too, if there are juicy specials or a good reason to establish a base elsewhere.

I think this gives my beautiful empires a more organic look, as opposed to a ridged grid. I know I dislike cookie cutter suburbs, and a pure grid is like that for me. A little variation makes life more interesting.

Hydro

Blake is offline Blake
King
Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 07:12
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I think the most common technique is to just skip the tiles that can't be built on, early on it's difficult to get enough tiles to work anyway, due to rocky and fungus that takes time to clear. So you just found bases in the pattern, and once you have some spare former time clear the rocky & fungus and fill in the gaps.

IMO the most dense ICS is actually counter-productive, unless it's in the Jungle, giving bases a bit more land increases their minerals, which once put through a genejack allows construction of better shell units (ie 30 mineral ones)

For example, with 8 tiles to work (half as dense spacing) a base can grow to size 18 on pure forest (hybrid+orbitals), produce 24 minerals - which is 36 with Genejacks, that allows construction of 30 mineral shells, and 6 minerals left over for support. The terraforming requirements are also not anywhere near so high, and because you only have half the bases, you only need half the infrastructure (well, likey you'll invest in Treefarm and Hybrid Forest, but these do give another +100% energy).

Also, another thing it is not uncommon to only space half as densely at the start, then once you get sky hydroponic labs fill in the other half of bases. After all, a base crawling two condensors can only grow to 5 before orbitals and enrichers, it makes sense to crawl another 2 condensors to grow to size 9, the bases can also work 2 boreholes to build infrastructure faster, as pre-engineers there isn't that much cash for rushbuying.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 07:28
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I build cities on the grid, come back to the more difficult squares later when they are terraformed. Fugus + rock? Just throw more formers at it!

Last edited by Skanky Burns on 09-07-2004 at 07:35

Blake is offline Blake
King
Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 07:44
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Insane, most those bases are too small to support specialists.

But I find the naming hilarious. And total costs, -3

Method is offline Method
Emperor
/me goes to France
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 10:35
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Put an end to popups!

Oh, how I want to throw a singularity planet buster at D6...

Archaic is offline Archaic
King
Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 12:01 Visit Archaic's homepage!
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Oo;;

That's....a lot more dense than I was expecting. Is the style Skanky uses there the same dense style everyone else is using now? I was expecting something more along the lines of having Boreholes at the cardinal points with a base in the middle.

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 12:34
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've done that, but usually after satellites . My densest for normal play is a bit lighter on the bases. Same borehole-condenser pattern. How boring. I only do that when I'm going for score, not even in MP. It's just boring to work with for me.

-S

binTravkin is offline binTravkin
Emperor
Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
time: 07:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:00
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Remove this text

quote:
Insane, most those bases are too small to support specialists.


Skanky is going to have Orb SpaceFlight in 10-15 turns I think and THEN ... KABOOM (pop booms HUGELY)!

with all the following things (as for example research at 1tech turn & more)

binTravkin is offline binTravkin
Emperor
Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
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  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:05
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Put an end to popups!

And

quote:
Is the style Skanky uses there the same dense style everyone else is using now?


Not really, but it's the best to get powerful very quick!
(Im using it 100% times, even in SP)

I only wonder why the hell Skanky is researching L5 tech at 2212 - it's too late for that

If I use Morgan for ICS (best fac for ICS!), I can get Orbital by around 2190 - 2200 and then the game is over..

binTravkin is offline binTravkin
Emperor
Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
time: 07:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:08
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Got spare money?

quote:
Oh, how I want to throw a singularity planet buster at D6...


If you don't use the same system in game vs Skanky, where he's Uni & you're Morgan (the best for it), you will be able to drop Fuison PB there around the time he will be able to answer you with a Singularity one..

If only you proberape him to death..
But it's 10% possible, because he will get all the SPs past L4, if you're not ICSing (HSA as well)

Archaic is offline Archaic
King
Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:15 Visit Archaic's homepage!
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What's the production like *before* Orbital however? The game should be decided long before that, not because of it.

Maybe someone could create a scenario we could use two compare the two styles under optimal circumstances?

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:19
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I still need to work on my tech beelining somewhat.

Chaunk is offline Chaunk
King
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
time: 05:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:19
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Got spare money?

Chop and drop would deal serious damage to that at probably 2170. The only hope would be to get the CBA I think.

ICS looks ugly anyway... My least favourate strat...

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:21
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Rush a facility every 3rd or so base and you are immune. :shrug:

Chaunk is offline Chaunk
King
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
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  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:23
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Not immune, it just means that drop rovers are needed a turn before.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:36
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Which can then be counter-attacked. Immune.

Chaunk is offline Chaunk
King
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
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  Old Post 09-07-2004 16:46
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Hehe, you keep thinking that Skanky...

Blake is offline Blake
King
Brainfallocatione
Oct 2000
time: 17:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 17:18
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Is that on a standard map?


I was wondering if ICS could be combined with a heavy minerals approach... and actually figured out something pretty clever (IMO), once you have the orbitals up take every triplet of bases - currentely each works 1 borehole and crawls 2 condensors.
Instead, make 1 work the 3 boreholes and give it a genejack (30 minerals per turn)
the other 2 work no boreholes and can pretty much be stuck on stockpile energy, no more attention required.

The borehole base can then be given all the military infrastructure and used to pump shell units or complete fusion units, while the other 2 just add to energy.
A nice little opimization IMO, reducing the amount of infrastruture required and maximizing the utility of Genejacks and other mineral boosters. Also increases commerce with factions that have 1/3rd your base count.

livid imp is offline livid imp
Prince
Gimme a quarter or I'll touch you
Mar 2004
time: 21:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 21:04
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Two more things. One, although it seems to be universally accepted that every base spot should have a sensor and a forest under it, I find that the forest under the base as being fairly worthless. If your formers are keeping up with the ICS, then said forest will quickly be surrounded by farms. That means no forest spreading. What use could these isolated, unworkable forests be?
Two, No one really addressed the question of how important it is for you to pre-terraform condenser/farms before you plant a base.

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:32
  Old Post 09-07-2004 22:22
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With the PTS, need 1 farm for 1+1+2+base = 6 nuts
or 1 crawler for the same

With PTS + booming, the 1 condensor for 4+1+1+base = 8

Without PTS, no need unless booming. Then 4+base =6 for 2 growth, by which time you can rush a CP.

At least, that's how I try to do it.

In MP I put sensors under bases, no forest. In SP I forgo either.

Method is offline Method
Emperor
/me goes to France
Feb 2001
time: 00:32
  Old Post 12-07-2004 03:09
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Skanky's placement is insane. I prefer 3 spaces apart like the following....
It does end up leading to too much open space like the area circled in blue, or inefficient borehole placement like around the orange circle, though.



Oh, and this is my first game in _several_ months

Commy is offline Commy
King
St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:32
  Old Post 12-07-2004 04:53
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I prefer to have loose spacing. HOnestly, unless George Bush manages to send a colony to mars or something, nobody in their right mind is goind to lead a society like that with their cities like that. Three spaces is good, except on landmarks, in which it is two or one. Honestly it all depends...

logic_error is offline logic_error
Chieftain

Jun 2004
time: 07:32
  Old Post 12-07-2004 05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Method
Skanky's placement is insane. I prefer 3 spaces apart like the following....
It does end up leading to too much open space like the area circled in blue, or inefficient borehole placement like around the orange circle, though.

Oh, and this is my first game in _several_ months

Quick expansion, I must say. I pity the poor AI for having so few cities. Probably they have zero crawlers too. Looks like you have satellites too, when did you build your first one? Can we have the savegame too?

Method is offline Method
Emperor
/me goes to France
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 12-07-2004 22:50
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I don't have sats. I'm researching neural grafting right now.

logic_error is offline logic_error
Chieftain

Jun 2004
time: 07:32
  Old Post 13-07-2004 03:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Method
I don't have sats. I'm researching neural grafting right now.

How did you manage to reveal the whole map then?

Archaic is offline Archaic
King
Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:32
  Old Post 13-07-2004 05:34 Visit Archaic's homepage!
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Unity Survey on most likely.

Method is offline Method
Emperor
/me goes to France
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 13-07-2004 07:10
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yes.

Snowflake is offline Snowflake
Princess
falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:32
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:24
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Skanky your country is ugly. Nobody would like to live there and your neighbor would really have to work on curbing his urge to pb you.

 
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