09-07-2004 12:22									#1
	Strange multiple war "declaration" Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Has anybody experienced a declaration of war by other civs simply for taking the last city of a civ you're conquering?

I had this happen to me for the first time yesterday, and I don't understand it. I'm playing the original Civ III, ver. 1.29f, on Monarch, standard size map with 8 civs. I play the Greeks, and on my continent, the largest, are the French, Russians and Egyptians. On two smaller continents are the Japanese, Iroquois, Rome and Babylon.

I had previously trimmed the Russians down to two insignificant cities and was now taking on Egypt. I was at war with noone else, but as I took Egypt's last city, everybody except the Japanese declared war (that is to say, they didn't declare it, they just went into a state of war with me). Prior to this, I had only had a couple of minor skirmishes with Rome and Babylon a long time ago, both of which they had started. And the war against Russia. Diplomatic relations were stable and had been for a long time.

It was no big deal in terms of being a threat to me, but I was wondering why it happened in such a strange way. Immediately upon capturing the last of Egypt's cities, a box popped up, saying "We lost our supply of Dyes". I was importing Dyes from the Romans, so that made sense, but I never saw any formal declaration of war from Rome or from any of the others.

What's more, as the game progressed and peace was restored, I found out during diplomacy sessions that the other civs seem to think I have at some point sneak attacked the Iroquois, which I haven't. I only declare war after the expiration of peace agreements, and I always keep up with any MPP's that other civs may have entered into. Egypt didn't have any, and besides, it was an ongoing war and this mysterious thing happened only after I took their last city. But the other civs seem to equate my wiping out Egypt with having sneak attacked the Iroquois. Very strange.

	09-07-2004 13:41									#2
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did you renegotiate peace deals with Rome at one point or another and included an alliance or embargo against the Egyptians in the deal?

because when you killed off Egypt, any deals that you have with other civs concerning Egypt are considered broken, and if a deal that was packaged together with a peace treaty, you end up going to war automatically.

that's the only thing I can think of right now, perhaps you should check the existing deals you had with Rome before you took the last Egyptian city.

	09-07-2004 18:39									#3
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Yes, that must be it, PeaSoup. I just went back to the latest save I had before the incident, and it showed I had embargos against Egypt with France, Rome and Iroquis. Russia and Babylon were up for renegotiation in 8 and 10 turns respectively, so it's quite possible I included an embargo in the deal with them as well. I always like to maximize the deals, and since half of those civs never had anything to give in return for a renewed peace treaty, I thought I could at least get them to abstain from trade with my current enemy. Turned out to be a bit unwise in the situation.

It makes perfect sense that eliminating Egypt caused the peace treaties to be broken, since they were bundled with the embargo. Well, there's a lesson learned for me, I'll have to look out for that in the future. Regarding the sneak attack thing with the Iroquois, I guess all the civs considered it an act of treachery when the Egyptians vanished, and it must've just been the Iroquois at random they kept mentioning.

Thanks for clearing it up for me! I had long since forgotten about the embargos, they weren't important at all, which makes it even more silly. It was akin to routinely getting the world map in peace deals when it's all they have to offer.

	09-07-2004 21:27									#4
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Winston, look up CFC-War Academy: AI Attitude
It will show how being at war with a common enemy (through alliance or not), always ends in (relatively) bad feelings when you are no longer at war.

	09-07-2004 23:24									#5
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Yes the loss of points you gained while in concert with other civs vs Cleo, ofen results in war.

	10-07-2004 00:04									#6
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Good link, there's some solid information in Bamspeedy's analysis, and to me it opens a whole new area of getting the AI in a bad mood.

	11-07-2004 16:18									#7
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Does anybody else here agree that it's insane for your ally in a war to consider you a traitor because you won the war that the alliance was forged in order to fight?

	11-07-2004 20:41									#8
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It depends. If you were on great terms at the start, then maybe you are correct.

If you were not on good terms, but bought them to join the fray and did some razing, then when it was done, they would be very unhappy with you.

Some of the strange relations are put in to prevent humans from finding a means of exploiting the AI and on the surface look silly.