09-07-2004 16:59									#1
	Civ as MMORPG? Increase the size of your Attachments

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/civilizati...n/529070p1.html

Sounds interesting... I just don't hope it turns out to be like that other game like it (don't remember the name of it), since it didn't hold my attention for longer than a week...

	09-07-2004 17:23									#2
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I remember hearing about this before. It sounds so ****ing ridiculous.



From what I read it's basically just a shadowbane knock-off with a pseudo-prehistoric setting where there's magic wielding cavemen or whatever.

	09-07-2004 17:32									#3
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How do you get that from the text?

	09-07-2004 17:33									#4
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It would be quite interesting to have a game in which you must first impress enough people to gain a following through great deeds, then motivate them enough to become an organised society and then micromanage them to greatness/AC. However, such a game would have to come on about twenty discs if it were to do any section of the game justice, and I get annoyed switching the three in BGI. Besides, how many great games can you think of that are actually amalgamations of different genres?

	09-07-2004 17:38									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio How do you get that from the text?

I was relating what I had read before - that it was basically a typical MMORPG like Everquest and so on, only that you could build cities and nations (like in Shadowbane) and the setting was supposed to be pseudo-historical, with magic thrown in ('cause what's an 'RPG' without magic? ).

	09-07-2004 17:41									#6
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I was relating what I had read before - that it was basically a typical MMORPG like Everquest and so on, only that you could build cities and nations (like in Shadowbane) and the setting was supposed to be pseudo-historical, with magic thrown in

I certainly hope that's not true

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd ('cause what's an 'RPG' without magic? ).

An RPG I would play...

	09-07-2004 17:43									#7
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I couldn't find the article I had read before, but here's the anouncement blurb taken from gamespy:

quote: iEntertainment Network today announced Civilization's Dawn, a massively multiplayer online role-playing game that features both strategy and role-playing elements in a persistent world setting. Civilization's Dawn takes players back in history to a world where Neanderthals, Humanoids, Mystics and Wizards vie for survival and dominance and players represent a new force that has arrived to claim mastery over the world. The title contains a variety of features including puzzles and brain teasers tied into quests, gameplay that pays homage to many classic MMORPG and real-time strategy games. Details about actual gameplay were not disclosed. The title will be launched at retail around the world as well as online through the iEntertainment Network. Further details when we them.

	09-07-2004 17:45									#8
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Having just read the article in question (all right, I skipped the rubbish about what a good business proposition it would be for investors), then it sounds suspiciously like the inter-site demo games. Has 'poly got a lawyer? What about CFC? Will Lefty go pro bono?

	09-07-2004 17:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I couldn't find the article I had read before, but here's the anouncement blurb taken from gamespy:

Damn...

	09-07-2004 18:12									#10
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well as long as the Mystics resemble a bunch of new age hippies with spells, then it could be fun.........




.........to mash them under your armies of brute streangth and ignorance?

	09-07-2004 21:03									#11
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Worth keeping an eye on I suppose, but I agree to be successful it would have to be a MMORPG with civvish flavour rather than a real amalgamation of genres.

	10-07-2004 00:28									#12
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It doesn't look very civvish at all.

	10-07-2004 15:08									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Worth keeping an eye on I suppose, but I agree to be successful it would have to be a MMORPG with civvish flavour rather than a real amalgamation of genres.

I think one of the things that made Civ a success was that at heart it was also an educational game to some extent(ok it was wrapped up in a fun game, but i still felt like i was learning about history while playing it).

I just dont think the current climate for producing games has any appetite to really cary on that tradition - educational has almost become a dirty word in game development.

And i have to agree with Kucinich's statement - it doesn't really appear very civvish, more like its just borrowing its wrapper - still we wont really know until a bit later when more info comes out.

	10-07-2004 15:24									#14
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from the article

quote: "Sid Meier and I experienced tremendous success when we first shipped Civilization at MicroProse," said JW "Wild Bill" Stealey, CEO of IENT.

well he's among the founders of microprose, but he's not on the civ1 or civ2 credits
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/...eveloperId,989/

	10-07-2004 15:33									#15
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Hmmm.... looking at 'his' games, it doesn't sounds like this game will be very Civ'ish then

	10-07-2004 16:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio Hmmm.... looking at 'his' games, it doesn't sounds like this game will be very Civ'ish then

But atleast he is one of the old timers in the industry(i'm suspicious of the post 1990 brigade - they are all seduced by the evil graphics card manufacturers ) - as long as his role will be hands on in the developement it stands an even chance of being atleast ok and trying to do a decent civ type game?

	12-07-2004 02:03									#17
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Doesn't matter, I'm not forking out 15$ a month to play it.

	12-07-2004 02:21									#18
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i wish all these mmorpgs would die. especially stupid ones like this. they probably can't even solve the most basic of problems a game like this has - what happens when you are logged off but your nation is still there?

	12-07-2004 13:28									#19
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You're never allowed to be logged off damn it!
You must play all the time.

	12-07-2004 14:12									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Doesn't matter, I'm not forking out 15$ a month to play it.

Yes i find this the biggest issue for me as well, and i guess i could be termed a hard core game player(in that i'm very hard to please and its a full time hobby for me). So i imagine most MMORPG's are played by the ultra-hardcore.

When i buy a game i dont mind spending £50, but then its all mine and i can play it as and when i like for the rest of (my) time.
A monthly fee just seems a bit expensive in comparison? I supose if the game was so good it was the only game i wanted to spend time playing, then i might splash the cash? But it would have to be one hell of a game.

	12-07-2004 15:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by pg i wish all these mmorpgs would die. especially stupid ones like this. they probably can't even solve the most basic of problems a game like this has - what happens when you are logged off but your nation is still there?

Well, assuming it's like Shadowbane, your 'nation' is really just a collection of buildings, NPCs, and other player characters. They will probably look after themselves while you are off line, but you would also want to promote other people to positions of power so that they can tend to the NPCs and take charge of any political issues that might happen.

	12-07-2004 15:31									#22
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I've seen a lot of people say that (edit: to CoT), but mainly young people who have to beg mummy and daddy for extra pocket money.

I thought this would be something you'd go for CoT. I mean, just how much is £10 per month? You go with your gf (wife actually right?) to the cinema it costs more than that for 2 hours entertainment.

Most SP games have a limited lifespan, except the very best like Civ which I always return to. £10 just isn't very much to play a game that's always changing, with new content added and in a dynamic environment with other players.

Thus I've decided I have to fill this last real gap in my MP knowledge by playing WoW when it comes out.

Last edited by DrSpike on 12-07-2004 at 15:41

	12-07-2004 18:26									#23
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I've never found MMORPG's to be particularly varied. It (being a MMORPG) provides maybe about as much variation as the random map generator in civ, at most. The games always seem to be poorly designed so that they are extremely formulaic.

	13-07-2004 15:06									#24
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mmorpgs don't have gameplay they have a level treadmill(powergaming) and socializing. that's it. exception being pvp but other than planetside and the new daoc thingy it usually isn't worth playing. you're better off playing a fps/rts for a pvp type experience.

	13-07-2004 15:10									#25
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Well, assuming it's like Shadowbane, your 'nation' is really just a collection of buildings, NPCs, and other player characters. They will probably look after themselves while you are off line, but you would also want to promote other people to positions of power so that they can tend to the NPCs and take charge of any political issues that might happen.

yeah but that's not really solving the problem. that just means making sure you are in a clan with enough catasses that someone is always online to take care of business. i see that as a bad thing. didn't catasses do raid/sieges/whatever in shadowbane at 3 am all the time? i'd hardly call that solving the problem.

	13-07-2004 16:22									#26
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quote: Originally posted by pg yeah but that's not really solving the problem. that just means making sure you are in a clan with enough catasses that someone is always online to take care of business. i see that as a bad thing. didn't catasses do raid/sieges/whatever in shadowbane at 3 am all the time? i'd hardly call that solving the problem.

"Catass" is not a term I've heard before.


But these are different problems. Problems of 1) NPC guards being useless 2) Some people being able to play at all hours of the day (which is not really a problem) 3) The server needing to be reset every day.


The three of those together made for a bad situation in Shadowbane where there would be early morning "ninja raids" that attack cities and destroy any unprotected assets while facing no defense, or defenders settning the bane times to go off in the early monring in hopes of fewer attackers showing up, or even setting it right before the server resets so that the attack has no time at all to prepare the siege and has to race to the city from their tree once the servers comes back up.

These problems are all easily adressed, though. Realms of Tormet, for instance, plans to make NPCs much more powerful, to the point where they could make the majority of a nation's power. This would mean that as long as you have your army of NPCs defending your city, those 'ninja raids' are impossible.

(where as in Shadowbane you could have upwards of 200 fully level NPC guards that still can't defend the city from 10 or so people)

	13-07-2004 16:24									#27
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quote: Originally posted by pg mmorpgs don't have gameplay they have a level treadmill(powergaming) and socializing. that's it. exception being pvp but other than planetside and the new daoc thingy it usually isn't worth playing. you're better off playing a fps/rts for a pvp type experience.

Don't forget roleplay.... I know, it's hard to find in a MMORPG, and it's a definate minority, but it can be fun when you find the right people.

	13-07-2004 17:00									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike edit..... You go with your gf (wife actually right?)

well it sure feels like it sometimes (had to put that old chesnut in!)

And yes in theory a MMORPG should i suppose be my ideal game type(Pirates of the Burning Coast looking like an interesting one for me at the mo).

I guess in a way i find the sound of them a bit too shallow, they always nealry just come down to killing stuff and leveling up.
I don't mind that in a one off payment game, but in something i may want to really get into and spend constant money on i'd prefer something a little 'more'.
Not sure what exactly that 'more' is, but i havent been inspired enough by any MMORPG yet to give it a go(Star Wars Galaxies came close).

And half of me just finds the whole losing ones self in a virtual world a little disturbing - real life should be the one that interests us more no? There will plenty of time for our descendents to live under the control of the silicon terror

	13-07-2004 22:31									#29
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor I think one of the things that made Civ a success was that at heart it was also an educational game to some extent(ok it was wrapped up in a fun game, but i still felt like i was learning about history while playing it). I just dont think the current climate for producing games has any appetite to really cary on that tradition - educational has almost become a dirty word in game development.

None of them have been runaway smash hits, but the Paradox games are very educational. EU1 and 2 especially are brimming with historical events that fascinated me.

The problem with 'Edutainment' seems to be that anybody that starts by trying to turn education into a game format fails miserably. The ones that succeed are really fun games that manage to add a layer of information on top without ruining the playability.

	14-07-2004 00:08									#30
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RPG without Magic

Civilization RPG

I don't like to bash new ideas, they drive innovation, but a Civ RPG?