12-07-2004 01:52									#1
	Civ4 as an educational tool Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I really hope with all the talk of cutting out "unfun" elements that the game's realism doesn't go down the drain because of it. There of course needs to be a balance between being a fun game and also showing the player how civilizations really evolved and how the world works. I think if it could pass the "12th grade history class democracy game" test, then its level of realism is good. Let me explain:

How cool would it be if a class of students could play historical scenarios (like a WWII scenario for example) as a democracy game, with several teams of students running civs and trying to beat the other team of students. They could even write newspapers and really dig into the history. I think this would be a blast, and they'd learn a lot about a particular period of time too. But in order for this to happen, Civ4 would have to be at least somewhat realistic, realistic enough for a 12th grade history teacher to accept it as a reasonable model of how the world really works.

So, how does Civ4 strike this balance? I kind of think that completely getting rid of things like unhappiness would be detrimental. Thoughts?

BTW, I'm in 11th grade right now, and I'm already salivating just thinking about launching my team's Soviet forces against my fellow classmates' Panzer divisions.

	12-07-2004 03:08									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Also, maybe Firaxis could include some pre-made historical/educational scenarios with the game?

	12-07-2004 12:45									#3
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Well, I've got so lucky as to actually play with my teacher and a few fellow classmates in a few games of civ 3, They weren't actual historical battles, but you can pick up a bit of history just from learning how to play the games. It is pretty fun, as we planned invasions of coastlines and such with each other. Teams of 2 or 3 sometimes, its very very fun. You can get much more in depth with the game when you know the people you play with.

	12-07-2004 15:12									#4
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It shouldn't be used as an educational tool, but sparking an interest to look deeper into particular areas is a worthy goal.

Civ never claimed to be an educational tool so fair dues, but some of its past civilopedia entries are more than a little dubious.

	13-07-2004 14:06									#5
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Very true, and I really didn't intend on it being that way, as you don't learn much into the actual politics of governments and such, just the basic idea of what the government stands for. I mean, really, when you ask a class of sixth graders what values communism stands for, not many are going to answer. But one who has played Civ games might know something by reading the texts in the Civilopeida, or just knowing that communism reduces corruption nationwide. (An obviously rudimentry statement, but you get the just of it)

(Btw, who was playing civ 1 or 2 in the sixth grade?)


(What about the third grade?)

	13-07-2004 19:07									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You think communism reduces corruption nationwide? I don't think that comment even means anything (at least not anything resembling a true factual statement) - what do you mean by it?.

	13-07-2004 22:31									#7
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I think the game should be somewhat educational, and not too graphic, so more people won't feel too guilty about playing it. These are things that got me interested in the series.

	15-07-2004 22:17									#8
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see this column about civ and history. Its dated, (written before Civ3 released) but you might find it interesting.

http://apolyton.net/misc/column/183_hegel.shtml

	16-07-2004 12:23									#9
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I used to play a game called The Patrician. Basically a trading game around the Hanseatic cities of the 13th-16th centuries. I learnt a lot about Hanseatic times through this even to the point where it came in useful in a German Lit class at University. It would be good to see some nicely inbuilt accurate historical references. Somehow the references in the civilopedia just didn't do it for me.