29-07-2004 03:16									#31
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Now it should be blinding white

Yeah, will correct that. Now just gonna finish my CC detail stuff.

The CC does help when you're invading a base because of the +1 morale effect to the unit. Suddenly a lowly commando unit is now elite, moving twice as far, and beating all comers in combat

Last edited by Chaunk on 29-07-2004 at 03:22

	29-07-2004 03:29									#32
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Well, the red shows up, but the white background is blinding me. There's a reason I went with Blue MOO3 for a background.

	29-07-2004 03:30									#33
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Also I've noticed commandos and elites attacking and defending on base squares with CCs getting +50% and +62.5% to combat respectively.

	29-07-2004 03:36									#34
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Now not blinding grey ish.

Commandos and Elites can defend at better than +50% true. It's due to the effect of the CC causing extra +'s up the morale table in multiplyers. An Elite (++) for example, defends at +75%!

As an almost complete aside, it's worth noting that Command Centers have a variable upkeep cost equal to your highest reactor tech (So, 1 with fission, 2 with fusion etc.). No other facility has a variable cost IIRC.

	29-07-2004 03:38									#35
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I'm just going to have to load up a game and see for myself whether a Creche helps morale outside the base.

	29-07-2004 10:34									#36
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I remember once setting a very green unit as "designate defender" increased its morale while defending the base square (against worms) and that without Creches present. I'm not sure at the moment whether that is actually true since I haven't found a reference to that anywhere and am currently too short on time to test it...

	29-07-2004 12:04									#37
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As soon as the unit left the base, the (++) after it became (+). This was playing as the Spartans, so no Wealth. Does this mean the Creche gives +1 morale outside the base, and +2 morale inside the base? Or does that mean one of the plusses is from SE, and one is from the creche??

	29-07-2004 14:07									#38
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Playing the spartans you've got +2 morale, which is +1 morale, +2 on defense. In order to achieve that effect, it gives you a (+) to your Morale which only helps on defense, or when attacking from a base square. The first (+) was from the creche indeed.

The creche does also give +1 to the Morale of the unit when it's built. It's all but impossible to notice if you're running -2 Morale or worse. Thats because the -2 morale will halve positive modifiers, and I believe it rounds down, although I'm not 100% sure on that.

Last edited by Chaunk on 29-07-2004 at 18:27

	29-07-2004 18:26									#39
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I just built a new unit after finishing the Creche, and it's Morale is identical to the units created before: Disciplined (++) inside and Disciplined (+) outside. Then I upgraded them all at a monolith to Hardened (+) outside the base. Then I put them in a base without a Creche, and they were all still Hardened (+). Back to the Creche base, and they went to Hardened (++).

Nowhere.

Last edited by jtsisyoda on 29-07-2004 at 18:41

	29-07-2004 18:27									#40
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Where?

	29-07-2004 18:49									#41
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Try it again playing as Morgan, fundy + wealth so running -1 morale. Unit built with creche (And Command Center + Bioenhancement facility) will be elite, where without the creche itll be only commando. I think that might be the only time you get +1 Morale from the creche though... need to check some more.

	23-08-2004 08:16									#42
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By playing around with different level of morale from social engineering, I found out something weird. It seems that 'positive modifiers halved' includes the morale bonus given by command centers, bioenhancement centers, etc. That means a command center gives only a +1 morale bonus to units built during a -2 or lower morale from social engineering. So much for having a few cities w/ com centers & bioenhancement centers to laugh at the morale effects of wealth :P

	24-08-2004 04:24									#43
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quote: Originally posted by arginine By playing around with different level of morale from social engineering, I found out something weird. It seems that 'positive modifiers halved' includes the morale bonus given by command centers, bioenhancement centers, etc. That means a command center gives only a +1 morale bonus to units built during a -2 or lower morale from social engineering. So much for having a few cities w/ com centers & bioenhancement centers to laugh at the morale effects of wealth :P

True.

But usually the value of Wealth (+Industry) outweighs the morale hit, especially when in builder phase. Occasionally, I have been known to switch out of Wealth when building an offensive military force, but only so long as is necessary.


Mead

	24-08-2004 16:16									#44
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hmm i thought the morale of a unit is not decided when building it like in civ (there a unit builded in a city with a barrack is a veterand) but at the fight: i mean if a city builds three units and then a command center, those units are upgraded with 1 or 2. Or am i completely wrong?

Greetz

	25-08-2004 09:04									#45
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The morale is effected by both, the city supporting the unit, and the city the unit is built in. A command center adds 2 morale (1 if morale social setting is less than -1) to a land unit it build in that city. That morale stays with the unit forever. A children's creche in the city supporting a unit will increase the morale of that unit by 1. If that unit is rehomed to a different city without a children's creche, that unit loses the +1 morale.

	28-08-2004 15:23									#46
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That's why you make 1 or 2 CC bases to make your 1-1-1 shells to upgrade from (rehoming as necessary).

-- CTO #endgame.

	29-08-2004 08:14									#47
	Got spare money?

I thought upgrading most units cost more than rush building them.

I played around with mind controlling bases and units, and in most cases mind controling units is a downright ripoff. Mind controling bases is much more cost effective. I found that the cost of mind controlling base is...

total cost = some dollar amount + another dollar amount * ( num offensive units (attack >= defense) + pop of base )

All of the factions units adjacent to the base become yours as well free of charge. Defensive units and noncombat units are free as well. :>

To keep takeover costs low, get a base which is not close to the capital. The victim's probe SE rating is also influential. -2 probe cuts takeover cuts in half. +2 doubles takeover costs. A rioting base is also at half price.

It would be nice if we could buy out a new hive base the closest to our base. That way we won't have to build a 100 EC perimeter def Also, buying a small university base for a legal office would also be very handy :>

	03-09-2004 17:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by #endgame That's why you make 1 or 2 CC bases to make your 1-1-1 shells to upgrade from (rehoming as necessary). -- CTO #endgame.

1-1-1 shells =/= Good idea

As you go up in tech and reactors, you can build "shell" units with far higher abilities, reducing your upgrade costs, yet for some reason, I still see a lot of people wasting minerals and cash with these 1-1-1's. Never understood that. Sure, the mineral requirements are higher, but you should have plenty of minerals to fuel that by those stages in the game anyway.

	10-10-2004 04:17									#49
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Since the Spartans have been able to reach us via foil, they could invade soon if so desired. Intelligence would be best, but we don't have that now. On the plus side we have survived making the HGP and everything is in place for the PTS. Our industry is free to make weapons should we have to. In the event of a Spartan invasion do we have a basic defense plan?

	10-10-2004 09:33									#50
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I don't think we have a detailed plan. The general defense plan was synth attorneys, but that was intended for the period before contact. HEC/Plasma should be high on the priority list. Until then, we'll have to rely on synth probes, synth rovers, and litigators for counterattack (and cash). We could consider doubling up on synth rovers at each periphery base, especially to the south and east.

	10-10-2004 11:34									#51
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Fellow members of the board, our military disposition should be considered on two specific issues: Defense and Intelligence/Reconnaissance.

It is viable to emphasize defensive measures. However, we seem to lack sufficient probes/scouts/reconnaissance forces.

I highly suggest we deploy a few tactical reconnaissance units (ground/naval probes) at key entry points to our territory. In addition to giving us an efficient early warning system (and the option to focus any defensive measures) we can also hope to procure new map data to further support our tactical assesments.

Awareness of advancing enemy forces (including enemy military disposition) is invaluable to any defensive strategy!

The recent 'spartan incident' indicates that our intelligence/reconnaissance measures need more attention.

Director Rubin
Chief Security Officer

	10-10-2004 23:04									#52
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I suppose then 2 cheap gunfoil recon vessels now and, when tech permits, 2 more foils with real weapons on them.

A base near the narrow sea separating Morgan & Sparta for vessel repair would be nice.

	11-10-2004 01:16									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Rubin Fellow members of the board, our military disposition should be considered on two specific issues: Defense and Intelligence/Reconnaissance. *** Director Rubin Chief Security Officer

Good to see you Rubin.

Your military resources are somewhat limited right now, but I'm sure you'll manage them effectively.


Mead

	11-10-2004 03:03									#54
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Arginine, are you suggesting we drop out of Free Market? Otherwise, we'll have riot issues. We plan to build PTS very soon, so the HGP won't prevent them.

Thanks for the input Rubin. Since we have some contact now, we'll need your advice for how many defensive units you think are necessary. As two of our PBEM's demonstrate, I tend to underestimate the required defenses. We're counting on you to keep us in line.

	12-10-2004 04:29									#55
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I keep on forgetting that. We could eventually make some size one cities for homing overseas units.

	12-10-2004 07:51									#56
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I must amend my previous post. With PTS, there is a way to make a size one city-- make two colony pods. That's perfectly feasible, given that we want to build six more bases soon after PTS. Then it can make a bunch of gunships. It will take time to get there, but it might be very useful.

	10-11-2004 10:16									#57
	Who's Hive Gonna Invade? Got spare money?

Take look at the infiltrated F4 screen that Googlie posted in the embassy. (I don't know how to copy it over to here).

It looks like just about every Hive base is building Impact Rovers, Infantry, plus 1 Impact Art. (about 20+ Impact units under construction)

If we were closer to the Hive (and if we did not have that nice Fungus speedbump between us and them) I would be a lot more worried. The screen Googlie posted does not show any ships (inc. transports) under construction. All the same, let's keep our contacts between us and the Hive to an absolute minimum.


Mead

	10-11-2004 12:46									#58
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What're the odds that is's photochopped? False intelligence sort of thing?

Which factions had access to it?

-- CTO #endgame

	10-11-2004 23:59									#59
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quote: Originally posted by #endgame What're the odds that is's photochopped? False intelligence sort of thing? Which factions had access to it? -- CTO #endgame

I don't know if it's misinformation.

Sparta would have to know that we hadn't infiltrated the Hive. Otherwise we'd recognize the forgery (if it is).


Mead

	11-11-2004 03:12									#60
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Posted these pictures in the Sparta-Diplomacy thread, but they'll probably be more useful here...






This was given to us from the Spartans, the legitamacy of the pictures is unknown.