 |
|
jtsisyoda
|
 |
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:33
|
|
There are some obvious options to make up for no chopper base attacks:
Lots and lots of needlejets.
Drop troops attack the base. Infantry get +35% edit: +25% vs. a base, while Rovers can swoop in from outside the protective radius of an Aero Complex.
Air cover for those troops will be important. Otherwise, choppers can wipe out lots of incoming troops. Air superiority will be important-- a defender needs chopper interceptors to take out air cover, then regular choppers to clean up the ground troops.
Choppers are still great offensively for taking out crawlers and formers... ships, too.
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 12-07-2004 at 08:04
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:33
|
|
For conventional ground warfare, I highly recommend Buster's write up in the CGN SMAC Academy. http://www.civgaming.net/smac/acad_earlyattack.shtml
The key points on defense:
Forests slow down incoming rovers.
Sensors detect incoming troops (especially in fungus), give a bonus to defense, and deter mind worms.
Attack rovers can fight the invaders on their way in.
Probes and attack rovers can be positioned to retake a perimeter base that might be lost.
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 12-07-2004 at 08:03
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
In order to make up for the inablity to use choppers on bases we (and all the other human players) will have to make a lot of needlejets (plus a lot interceptors to protect those needlejets) to carry out an effective fast offensive.
We are not the Hive, but compared to the other human factions we are doing pretty well. Sparta has that industry penalty, and the Gainians are going to have a tough time to outbuild us. Once we go Wealth we will be able to build a lot of aircraft, fast.
We will, of course, have to swap out of FM when we begin the build-up. We are going to get out of FM in any event once we are going to war.
We should use an adapted "Swoop n' drop" using a lot of aircraft with droppers.
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:33
|
|
Pun Spheres come four techs later. That could be twenty years, or twelve if we're lucky. If we want to bomb somebody "with a quickness" (as they used to say in the 'hood  ), we'd probably have to go with specialist bases or Green.
If we have HGP and work one borehole, we would just need to crawl a few con-farms and mines. One convenient configuration is a con-farm nut bonus, Rec Tank, borehole, four specialists, and as many mines as we need (2?) to support the planes.
Dem/Green/Wealth is less fuss, where every city can support a few units. The energy income won't be as good, obviously, but we'll still get +1 energy/square. If the others are in Planned, they won't even get that.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
-SafaN-
|
|
what about buying everything with probes, or isn't that worth it?
Would it be better to use the probes for destroying perimeters and aerospace complexes and then drop and attack?
Wondering how hard it will be to infiltrate, will they have 20 probe defender in all cities?
SafaN
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:33
|
|
Pacifist drones are calculated after facilities. I think the only thing calculated after those drones is secret projects. To give an example, if you have a size four base, all drones at first, then six psych gives TWDD (Talent-Worker-Drone-Drone), then VW gives TWWW, then pacifist drones give TWDD again, then HGP gives TTDD, which would not riot. So there are conditions where one jet is ok, but that's six psych we didn't need to spend. In comparison, if we just crawled enough nuts to make three specialists, we'd start with DSSS, then pacifism would not have any additional effect (I think), and HGP would make it WSSS. No psych cost.
Mind controlling bases is expensive. I could see us doing it on a limited basis. But if we rely on probes exclusively, the other faction can switch to Fundy and it will become ridiculously expensive. That's a 40ec defense budget. 
quote:
Scorpi said in another thread:
But then we will also get D:AP first right? But is that too soon to begin an offensive? |
Good question, Scorpi. Drop units are much more mobile, so that makes it easier. However, if we find a faction that has several bases near the sea, and within reach of planes, I could see us knocking out defenses with planes, then landing regular or amphibious troops to take the empty bases.
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 12-07-2004 at 19:31
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:33
|
|
Well, a setup that would let us attack everyone at once is also a setup where everyone can attack us. One at a time is fine with me. 
As far as how many coastal bases people will have, it's hard to say. It depends on how much space they get, how many bases they want, how much of a navy they want to produce, and how cautious they are.
Ideally, we'd attack before they had DAP, so AAA would be unnecessary. If we elect to destroy roads and destroy incoming units, choppers would be good for that, since those units will be out in the open. I think it's a good bet they'll try a counterattack as soon as possible. If not, we'll have time to take more cities or shore up defenses. As far as destroying roads goes, it points out how drop troops are by far the most mobile. They don't need roads.
Probes will be a key option for retaking bases, so defensive probes are key to invasions.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Chaunk
|
 |
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
time: 05:33
|
|
Pun spheres come four techs later indeed, but then MMI, now almost a redundant tech, is three techs after D:AP, so we're only researching one more tech. Plus then we have AAA.
I'd be inclined to think that we should try and fight a defensive war. We have two options as I see it:
1. We can try to appear to be not worth attacking in the early game by looking weak. Human players know the power graph is useless, but it still plays on peoples minds. We want to appear to be weak on the power graph. We're doing a bad job of this at the moment with our exesive tech rate, and our expansion paradigm (CP immediatly size 2) will make us shoot up the chart too. However, when we level out just before the b-drone limit for the HGP, we will level out on the power graph, and it's here we should be trying to make lots of contact. We make friends with people here, ideally on fairly long term pacts or treaties at least. We then build the HGP, expand to the 2nd b-drone limit and rocket up the power chart.
This is stage 2. We need to look too strong to attack cheaply. We should try and make people ally to attack us. In a game with only one winner, any alliance is fragile, and easily broken by the power of the rumour. We should play on that.
The overall aim of this strategy would be to avoid war until we're so far ahead that the other factions have lost, whether they attack us or not. We build like crazy and suddenly they see our true strength when we insta-build 14 PB's and start waving them around. Game over.
2. Turtle like crazy. We don't go looking for people, we make them come to us. When they do come to us, we have a defensive probe network and garisons in all coastal or critical bases. Aero space complex's follow, but probably after AMA and AAA. This is a dangerous tactic as we can rest assured that some of the factions will be looking for us, and if they find us too soon, we will suffer.
If we must fight an offensive war, then roll out the noodles! Noodles + Elite infantry = strong attack. Fundy+FM+Wealth will get us great troops & probes. We should also be the first to most of the offensive techs, so blitzkrieg is a good option. Hard without choppers, but if we attack early enough, we'll only be facing scouts in most bases anyway.
This is mostly theory anyway at this stage. Sure, lets plan for all eventuallities, but lets take it as it comes. We may be able to avoid war and transcend peacefully. Lets wait and see 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpi40000
If we get The Virtual World and get a network node in every base wouldn't we be able to have at least one needlejet in each base? Or is those drone suppressors going to help with city growth? |
I was hoping for a lot more than 1 jet per base, although we should concentrate our construction at those bases, high in minerals, that have a AC and bio enhancment center.
If we go on the offensive, then I would like a LOT of aircraft, plus the necessary drop probes, drop rovers, and drop garrisons.
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Whoha
|
 |
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:33
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Pun Spheres come four techs later. That could be twenty years, or twelve if we're lucky. If we want to bomb somebody "with a quickness" (as they used to say in the 'hood ), we'd probably have to go with specialist bases or Green.
If we have HGP and work one borehole, we would just need to crawl a few con-farms and mines. One convenient configuration is a con-farm nut bonus, Rec Tank, borehole, four specialists, and as many mines as we need (2?) to support the planes.
Dem/Green/Wealth is less fuss, where every city can support a few units. The energy income won't be as good, obviously, but we'll still get +1 energy/square. If the others are in Planned, they won't even get that. |
actually, the efficiency bonus might overcome the lack of commerce/city square energy. the real problem with green is the growth hit.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
If we are concerned about unhappiness drones from overseas military units, get the HGP (which we plan to) make a few size 1 bases, home some crawlers to that base then stick them on mines, then home the offending military units, then let them go wild. I have determined that this works experimentally. Give the base a children's creche to take care of the - morale penalties. Beware that all positive effects of morale are still halved (that sucks)
My military skills are limited, so I'll stay short and simple:
"War is a continuation of policy through other means" - Karl von Clausewitz
Our early game wars should be for 2 reasons: 1) Compell AIs to pact with us for relatively low costs, thus bringing in trade. 2) Try to reduce the spoils of conquest by our fellow humans (Spartans come to mind). I guess the best way to achieve this would be to wage proxy wars through our AI allies. We could provide critical techs, and have some of our units on their front lines, doing things to assist our intellectually challenged silicon based business partners.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpi40000
But since 'copters can't attack bases we wont get a terribly big offensive advantage by getting MMI before everyone else. If we go on offensive with D:AP before the others get it we might get a little of that advantage right? |
I think MMI gives you drop units as well as choppers.
You can go on an air based offensive before MMI but would have to use other fast moving units to occupy the emptied cities (Rovers and elite units).
There may be a small window of oppurtunity of a few years where we have a monoploy on DAP.
We will know more as the game developes.
Mead
|
|
| |
|
|
|
arginine
|
|
The darked out map says we are on a peninsula, which leads into Hive territory. Until we get a transport, which can come from a lucky pod, or the more likely building of ships once we get doc: mob and doc: flex, we will be stuck here. Building any units will require resources which will be needed for pods and former, and then crawlers when we go for the SPs... I figured once we got the SPs, we would turn outwards. If this turning outward can be done now, and cheaply, I am for it.
We could try to sneak a probe team (or another fast unit) through hive territory in hopes of meeting (and then probing) the other human factions, but that runs a high chance of meeting Yang, and his demands.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Mead
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by arginine
***
We could try to sneak a probe team (or another fast unit) through hive territory in hopes of meeting (and then probing) the other human factions, but that runs a high chance of meeting Yang, and his demands. |
It is almost certain that our probe would encounter Yang.
Let's consider positioning a couple in good places for the passage (one in each directionto the other human players), but hold off until we actully meet Yang.
I have got a feeling that it will not be that long.
Mead
Hopefully we'll have probes by then.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
jtsisyoda
|
|
COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Jul 2003
time: 00:33
|
|
Here is some handy info on Morale:
SE Morale and it's effect on unit morale:
-2 : -1 Morale, and positive modifiers halved
-1 : -1 Morale
0 : N/A
1 : +1 Morale
2 : +1 Morale, +2 Morale on defense
3 : +2 Morale
Unit Morale:
-1 Very Green -12.5%
0 Green +0%
+1 Disciplined +12.5%
+2 Hardened +25%
+3 Veteran +37.5%
+4 Commando +50%
+5 Elite +62.5% and an extra movement point
Many things affect morale:
Wealth: -2 SE Morale
Fundy: +1 SE Morale
Monolith: +1 unit Morale
Trained: +1 unit Morale (available with Intellectual Integrity)
Command Center: +2 ground unit Morale (available with Mobility, or Loyalty w/Command Nexus)
Children's Creche: +1 Morale inside the base and no negative modifiers
Bioenhancement Center: +2 any unit Morale (available with Neural Grafting, or MMI w/Cyborg Factory)
Aerospace Complex: +2 air unit Morale (available with DAP, or MMI w/Cloudbase Academy)
Check this out:
Fundy/Green/Wealth (-1)
Command Nexus (net +1)
Cyborg Factory (net +3)
Trained (net +4)
Monolith (net +5) = Elite Infantry
Elite Plasma Missile Infantry would have 11.25 weapon strength against a base and 6.375 defense strength defending a base.
One beauty of the "Trained" special ability is that you can build a cheap Trained Scout, hit the monolith, head to the front lines, and then upgrade to Drop AAA, Drop ECM, or Drop Trance, and keep the Trained morale upgrade, even though you dumped the ability.
Another beauty of the Trained shell is that you don't need Cmd Nexus or Cyborg Fac, you just need a couple bases with the facilities to churn out massive numbers of Trained Scouts. We can do this for Garrisons as well as Shock Troops.
Last edited by jtsisyoda on 29-07-2004 at 02:09
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Chaunk
|
|
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
time: 05:33
|
|
Great post jt, but I'd like to make a few corrections...
The Morale SE settings are slightly different
-3 or lower : MoraleSE+1 Morale (so -3 gives -2 Morale) and positive modifiers halved
-2 : -1 Morale, and positive modifiers halved
-1 : -1 Morale
0 : N/A
1 : +1 Morale
2 : +1 Morale, +2 Morale on defense
3 : +2 Morale, +3 Morale on defense
4 : +3 Morale
Unit Morale:
-1 Very Green -25%
0 Green -12.5%
+1 Disciplined +0%
+2 Hardened +12.5%
+3 Veteran +25%
+4 Commando +37.5%
+5 Elite +50% and an extra movement point
The lowest Morale a unit can have is -1, so a prototype is always green or better. However, you can have SE that makes Morale lower, and that does make a difference later.
Many things affect morale:
Wealth: -2 SE Morale
Fundy: +1 SE Morale
Power: +2 SE Morale
Eudaimic: -2 SE Morale
Monolith: +1 unit Morale
Trained: +1 unit Morale (available with Intellectual Integrity)
Command Center: +2 ground unit Morale (available with Mobility, or Loyalty w/Command Nexus)
Children's Creche: +1 Morale inside the base and no negative modifiers
Bioenhancement Center: +2 any unit Morale (available with Neural Grafting, or MMI w/Cyborg Factory)
Aerospace Complex: +2 air unit Morale (available with DAP, or MMI w/Cloudbase Academy although not in this game)
Check this out:
Fundy/Green/Wealth (-1)
Command Nexus (net +1)
Cyborg Factory (net +3)
Any two of the following three:
Trained (net +4)
Monolith (net +5)
Children's Creche = Elite Infantry
Elite Plasma Missile Infantry would have 11.25 weapon strength against a base and 5.625 defense strength defending a base assuming no sensor net.
One beauty of the "Trained" special ability is that you can build a cheap Trained Scout, hit the monolith, head to the front lines, and then upgrade to Drop AAA, Drop ECM, or Drop Trance, and keep the Trained morale upgrade, even though you dumped the ability.
Another beauty of the Trained shell is that you don't need Cmd Nexus or Cyborg Fac, you just need a couple bases with the facilities to churn out massive numbers of Trained Scouts. We can do this for Garrisons as well as Shock Troops.
The Children's Creche (CC) in particullar is interesting as it's bonuses are many and varied. It gives +2 effic when working out energy loss due to inefficiency. It gives +2 growth. It's presence can trigger a population boom special event at a base (+small number of pop in one turn. I'm not 100% of the effect of this event.)
It's most interesting effect is on Morale. Any defender in a base with a CC gets a positvie modifier equal to the negetive modifier usually given under that SE. For example, under -3 Morale, a unit will defend a base with a CC as Very Green (++) +12.5%. Green in the same situation is Green (++) +25%. It effectivly moves the unit up the morale scale fo that combat, and has the best effect with a massive negetive Morale.
A CC will also give a unit +1 Morale. This is an extremely nice benefit and almost alone makes CCs essential. For a measly 1 e.c. upkeep the CC is probably the single best improvement in the game, allowing pop booming, and easy elites even when running bad Morale settings. |
Last edited by Chaunk on 29-07-2004 at 03:39
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:33.
Apolyton Time is 00:33. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
12-07-2004 07:08
.
|