14-07-2004 07:57									#1
	What is ICS and why is it so good? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've been playing SP SMACX forever, and I've never heard of this. I thought I was pretty good, too. Please enlighten me.

	14-07-2004 08:28									#2
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It stands for ICS - Infinite City Strategy. (Found as many bases as possible, don't care too much for development)

There is a thred about it called What's your ICS priority? I have never used it so a can't really tell you it's good or bad points. It does seem to quite popular though.

	14-07-2004 08:30									#3
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ICS is Infinite City Sprawl. A technique for indefinate expansion and population booming (usually). Do a search please. There are many threads devoted to ICS. You could bump one that seems really good or link back to it here when you have an answer. I don't mean to sound dictatorial or anything, but if the answer is out there, it's worth doing a search. ICS is definately out there in the huge history of discussion. -S

	14-07-2004 09:08									#4
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Just look at skanky's screenshot in the ics thread, its as good a primer as anything else.

	14-07-2004 10:58									#5
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Do a search for "infinite city". As you can see from replies 1 and 2, the S part of ICS stands for quite a few different things, while ICS itself is too short of the search algorithm to use.

Here is ICS in all its hideous glory!


Please note that I'm not a good player, and ICSing like this should have me well ahead of where I am now. Sats are quite valuable in this type of strat.

	14-07-2004 19:55									#6
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you have quite an ugly empire

	14-07-2004 20:13									#7
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ICS allows you to have more population than otherwise possible, and lets you take greater advantage of anything that grants a bonus to every base, including SPs, satellites, faction abilities, high economy, support per base, and the free production of the base tile.

Furthermore, it's easier to control two drones in each base with rec commons than it is to control ten drones in 1/5 as many bases. Keeping bases closer to your HQ cuts down on inefficiency. Keeping bases close to each other makes them harder to conquer, but easier to planet buster.

	14-07-2004 20:33									#8
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quote: you have quite an ugly empire

Here, in our smac/x -er community a pic like this is considered pretty rather than ugly!

	14-07-2004 20:46									#9
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Nope that's ugly IMHO. I'd much rather see a smaller number of size 11-14 bases supporting a few specialists and a large mins + energy out put than that monstrosity.

	14-07-2004 21:17									#10
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quote: Originally posted by redazncommieDXP you have quite an ugly empire

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

	14-07-2004 21:27									#11
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It is ugly. Yes it is ugly.

Even if it might be effecient nobody can argue that it is anything but pretty.

ICS is very useful, especially for Yang and Dee. I love ICS too but I don't think I can live with this kind of ugliness.

	14-07-2004 21:57									#12
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Ugly, pretty, who cares?! Your aesthetics hinder your pursuit of complete domination!

As computer chess programs have taught us, sometimes the best move is not the prettiest.

I admit, though, I play chess and SMAX to "create" as much as to win.

	14-07-2004 22:05									#13
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ahh if I had a nickel every time someone asked that question.


well.... I'd have a few dollars by now

	14-07-2004 22:07									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Do a search for "infinite city". As you can see from replies 1 and 2, the S part of ICS stands for quite a few different things, while ICS itself is too short of the search algorithm to use. Here is ICS in all its hideous glory! Please note that I'm not a good player, and ICSing like this should have me well ahead of where I am now. Sats are quite valuable in this type of strat.

That's the ugliest thing I have ever seen. It's such a mess, I don't think I could effectively manage it. I can't tell what's what.

	14-07-2004 23:09									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Nope that's ugly IMHO. I'd much rather see a smaller number of size 11-14 bases supporting a few specialists

What I don't understand is why more of those bases aren't supporting specialists. If each one has recycling tanks and crawls two condenser farms, that's enough nuts for a (specialist-allowing) population of five. Each base can have a worker on a borehole and four thinkers or engineers.

	14-07-2004 23:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by khslinky What I don't understand is why more of those bases aren't supporting specialists. If each one has recycling tanks and crawls two condenser farms, that's enough nuts for a (specialist-allowing) population of five. Each base can have a worker on a borehole and four thinkers or engineers.

Yep, thats the ugliest thing about Skanky's pic. There's very few bases at size 5. Even his HQ is only size 6 The only reason to have smaller bases would be when playing Morgan to reduce HabComplex costs in a smaller number of larger bases.

And the rec tanks isn't need to support the pop of 5 with two condensor farms. Infact, if every base had a rectanks, then crawl a single nut from every alternate base and make alternating size 5 & 6 bases.

	14-07-2004 23:15									#17
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Such a game would the hell out of me. I tried a few SP games with 2 tile separation of my bases, and it's already too much IMO. Although it is handy when playing on a small map.

	14-07-2004 23:50									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk Yep, thats the ugliest thing about Skanky's pic. There's very few bases at size 5. Even his HQ is only size 6

Exactly.

* Snowflake almost felt an urge to challenge skanky's ugly size 3 ICS by 2275 strategy with a pbem. Oh well.

	15-07-2004 00:14									#19
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It's ugly. Skanky's example is also not in full booming glory. However, it is the strongest and fastest strategy of all. Well, generally it is (2x-forest borehole is faster but not stronger).

As to managing it, it's actually easy. Because everything is in a row, there are no real decisions to make for terraforming or crawler placement.

There is no reason to use this strategy unless you are getting badly beaten by the AI in games, or are playing MP against veterans. But there isn't any reason not to use this strategy other than ugly. I've been shocked that none of the players in any of my recent pbems have base spacings less than 3 tiles between most bases. Everyone except Jamski's Hive, for which I'm a substitute player. MP games are usually on smaller maps (standard, large), which is even more reason to ICS. The turn advantage is tremendous. If you get beaten by someone running an ICS empire (perhaps less dense than Skanky's though ), don't blame it on luck.

-Smack

	15-07-2004 00:29									#20
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extremely ugly. nah, i'm not going to use it, it's too ugly for me, no matter how useful it is.

besides, i dominate well enough with a handful of bases and a lot of captured bases.

hive rocks.

	15-07-2004 09:44									#21
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I do need to work on my pop-booming somewhat. As in, actually start using it. I'm bad at tech beelining too.
*shrug*
I'm still learning.

	15-07-2004 20:56									#22
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quote: extremely ugly. nah, i'm not going to use it, it's too ugly for me, no matter how useful it is. besides, i dominate well enough with a handful of bases and a lot of captured bases. hive rocks.

If you take hive and do what you want in your base spacing and I take Morgan/Uni and go ICS with spacing of 1 you will NEVER EVER be able to capture MY bases!

Even with that -2 morale & -5 police & -3support which my SE gives to me!

It's just a question of timing - when you'll be able to mount Impact weapons on your cute shining rovers, I will be able to mount Chaos weapons on my cute shiny fusion copters..

And when you get your first fusion nuke completed, you won't be able to drop it because of my 20+ orbital defense pods..

I know some guys who changed their opinon about ICS from "ugly" to "pretty" after playing 1 game with me..

	15-07-2004 21:02									#23
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quote: I do need to work on my pop-booming somewhat. As in, actually start using it. I'm bad at tech beelining too. *shrug* I'm still learning.

When you get Ethical Calculus, try building Creches in all cities ASAP; when you've finished them at least in 90% cities, switch to planned/demo for 4+ turns.
In those turns you'll get all the bases up to max & your research will triple!

base=
6 en from borehole + ~6 from base + commerce = 12
/2 (50% allocation) = 6
*1.5 (nodes) = 9

4 librarians = 4*3 = 12 * 1.5 (node) = 18

18+9 = 27

27/9 = 3 (TRIPLE!!!)

	15-07-2004 23:48									#24
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bah the bases in that are way too neat ! Gimme a nice gritty ugly Hive empire which can be twice the size.

But yeah ICS rules, its also quite easy to get the hang of the basic principle and become a decent player in no time.

ps, Just don't expect people to like it in IP games, all those formers and crawlers ruin any attempt at a fast paced game

Last edited by Lazerus on 15-07-2004 at 23:54

	16-07-2004 00:08									#25
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well my last game I picked a random faction and I got Morgan. I haven't played him in ages, I forgot how much I missed him.

He is well suited for ICS. And I kind of did that. It wasn't quite as tight as the picture above, and I had many less bases as I was playing on a standard sized map. In many cases I did have bases 2 squares apart. Or in some cases 2 squares and 1 square diagonal apart. And I had Monsoon jungle- sweet.

Well I had my fastest transcendence victory (actually tied with another game).

It really helps keep drones under control. I have such problems with drones in my games, but not this one. I ran free market all the way until the end.

	16-07-2004 00:20									#26
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meh, i'm talking about playing sp, just me and the transcend comps. ICS? No thank you. But i'll try and keep that for multiplay, if i ever play against a hard opponent.

	16-07-2004 10:03									#27
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Thanks Travkin.

Looks like I'll be spending more than 3 in upkeep per turn though.

	16-07-2004 14:10									#28
	Re: What is ICS and why is it so good? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by redazncommieDXP I've been playing SP SMACX forever, and I've never heard of this. I thought I was pretty good, too. Please enlighten me.

.
Part 1 can be found here:
How Yang and Miriam came to visit Morgan's Park
.

And now for part 2, where we join Lady Deirdre Skye and Pravin Lal on their stroll through the woods to Skanky's House...:
.
.
How Deirde lost Fluffy the Mindworm in Skanky's Backyard

'Fluffy! Fluffy! Here Fluffy! Say, Pravin, did you bring the Xenobannanas?'

'My Lady, you do remember that we had to give all our Xenobannanas to Yang and Miriam who had washed up on the shores of New UN beach?'

'Ah, that's right. Poor sots. And they were so excited. Good thing we didn't tell them they were sharing an island made of sand and a single Xenobannana tree'

...... 'Say, Dierdre, we do have all the votes accounted for, correct?'

'Well, except for the small matter of the University. Perhaps we should check in with dear old Zak, I mean Skanky Burns, and see if he's still going to vote against us.'

'That might be a good idea. Just how many votes to we have, my tree-hugging friend? '

'According to my fingers and toes, we have enough votes to veto Morgan easily. Not that it really matters. Skanky Burns and the University hardly have two handfulls of votes, last I checked'

' You really ought to learn to read Deirdre. Even Miriam can chant out some simple words from her Synthmetal bible'

'Bible? 'No pictures. Not even a naked one! Keep your books Lal.'

'Mzziwuupt!'

'Fluffy! There's your pet, Deirdre....only he's heading over Mount Apolyton right into University hands!'

'Nooo! Fluffy! Oh Pravin, we've got to do something. Skanky Burns will just run some sort of Fusion experiment on poor Fluffy.'

'Hmmm....that's not in our charter'

'This is no time for you and your precious Charter, Lal. There's a cute fuzzy little mindworm about to be turned into yet another University experiment, and you want to make a bad cable company?'

'Well, I have an idea'

	16-07-2004 14:13									#29
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.......... .........

'You think that'll fool him? Naked?'

'Skanky Burns doesn't care much about naked tree huggers, but if we can just distract a few of hapless drones, that'll give me a chance to run in a put a leash on Fluffy'

'Hmmm...'

(Some hours pass while Dierdre and Lal climb Mount Apolyton and sneak into the University territories looking for Fluffy. Upon reaching the crust...er crest, the espie a strange sight)

'Grr. There's no Xenofungus down there anywhere! Where will Fluffy be hiding?'

'Look at all those votes 'I'll go find Fluffy while you distract Skanky and company. Remember, lead them all back here to the bridge to Yang and Miriam's island....'

--> 'Da da da DA! Charge!'

(Deirdre sets off down the hill in her birthday suit while Lal asks directions to Skanky's House)

Last edited by smacksim on 16-07-2004 at 14:30

	16-07-2004 14:34									#30
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(Lal dons his clever Earth-retro disguise and heads down the hill looking for Fluffy)

'So you're telling me that Skanky Burns #107 is the operating director of district 9? And that he lives just past E7 near the condensor farm? O.k.'

(Meanwhile, several thousand University drones are leaving work early to chase...er....march after the sprinting Lady)

'We want Skye, We want Skye!'

'Yipes, there sure are a lot of drones down here'

'Mzzuuwuppit!'

'Fluffy! '

'Skanky, where are you? Oh, a mindworm. '

'Lady Skye, lead us over the mountain. Yeah!'

'Drone 4378, please report to your station. I have a loose mindworm I'd like you to take to laboratory B33, immediately'

'Mzzupippit?'

'Skanky Burns, my old friend. there you are at last. I was meaning to talk to you about the upcoming elections...'

'Not now Lal. I've got a drone riot on my hands, and the biggest darn mindworm you ever did see, running through my fields after some naked hippie from Gaia'

--> 'My disguise didn't fool you for a minute. Well, it worked on CHIPs, so I thought I'd give it a try'

(turns around) 'Fluffy!' (hugs her mindworm, making the University drones jealous)

'Would one of you do me a favor?'

Last edited by smacksim on 16-07-2004 at 14:47