14-07-2004 22:22									#1
	Lots of Pods - Techs or SPs? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I had a little situation in my game last night, that I wasn't 100% sure what to do.

I had gotten extremely lucky on pod-popping, and I had around 6 or 7 alien artifacts comming into my base. I was researching Pre-sentient algorithms, and I strongly felt I needed the HSA. My custom faction I'm toying with was running -3 probe after Knowledge, and I wanted it. Santiago was actually building, and attemptiong to use, probe teams, so I was worried.

Oh, and did I mention that I was worried that Zaky was researching it too? He was too far away to make a probe team and slow him down, for the record.

So, back to the alien artifacts. Is it wiser, typically, to use alien artifacts to get the Technology You Need To Get That SP, or wait for the SP itself, and speed its construction time?

	14-07-2004 22:50									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You are pretty far advanced so my advice

1. use crawlers to build the HSA
2. steal or trade for every tech that anyone has that you do not
3. Then cash all your AAs for tech and ride your tech lead to victory

	14-07-2004 23:06									#3
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I usually prefer to divert them to secret projects. The thing is, usually I manage to already have the techs for the secret projects I would want..and often cashing them in for technology is a dissapointment. I usually like to get them to going somewhere sturdy which I can direct.

	14-07-2004 23:09									#4
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At HSA stage, a tech is far important than 50min. 6 AAs could build the HSA, but you've got a shot at fusion with 6 AA's. Use crawlers to build the projects and as Flubber says "cash all your AAs for tech and ride your tech lead to victory"

Sure you might get a few duff techs (Projenator Psych anyone?) but it's a tech you didn't need to research and the increased tech cost will be nothing compared to the tech saved by not having to research the tech.

	14-07-2004 23:34									#5
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If one's research rate is already quite good, I'd still prefer to cash in for minerals. Techs are nothing if one cannot apply them immediately. Also I think he's describing something considerably before the HSA.

If of course, the project is already started by someone else, I would go the tech route to make sure I at least get some chance to finish HSA before that player does.

(AS Svensgaard, Progenitor Psych is important to me )

300 minerals all at once is significant, because I can free up those 10-20 turns at my best minerals base to get on to the next project. Or to produce reinforcements ASAP to a weakening frontline.

	14-07-2004 23:54									#6
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or do as i do- have military units in pairs constantly rooting around for probe teams where you think she's gonna hit, and blow them to hell as soon as you spot them. then worry about the tech and build the hsa with supply.

	14-07-2004 23:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf 300 minerals all at once is significant, because I can free up those 10-20 turns at my best minerals base to get on to the next project. Or to produce reinforcements ASAP to a weakening frontline.

Is it a self- handicap that you just don't build 3 crawlers-- ( 1 turn each at your best mineral base I hope) and then upgrade them

	14-07-2004 23:56									#8
	Got spare money?

If he's far from HSA then he should have enough time to build all the crawlers to cash in for the tech. Definitely use the 6 AAs to get the tech he needs for the SP.

	14-07-2004 23:58									#9
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Or perhaps we can go the "steady release" option....we unleash the pods at critical moments for tech...so we really don't overescalate the tech cost.

	14-07-2004 23:59									#10
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quote: Originally posted by redazncommieDXP or do as i do- have military units in pairs constantly rooting around for probe teams where you think she's gonna hit, and blow them to hell as soon as you spot them. then worry about the tech and build the hsa with supply.

Ai probes should be little threat if you have a minimum of probe defenses up-- The HSA is a nice bonus and allows you to unstack units more often but it hardly seems like a key acquisition when only facing AI opposition

	15-07-2004 00:05									#11
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Have you ever played against Morgan?

Just when you think you've broken the backbone of resistance and held the most strategic city yet....

Probe team enters city, duels with other probe team. Loses. (Wealth kind of sucks this way, doesn't it ;-) ) Second probe team comes in, finishes off the probe team garrison. Third probe team brings down children's creche. Fourth brings down hologram theatre. Fifth incites riot. Riot starts. (This seems to reduce the conversion cost by a lot) Sixth MIND CONTROLS THE CITY.

Thats six probe teams, by the AI, on one city, in one turn. And I lost a significant foothold. Eek!

	15-07-2004 00:46									#12
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Update - In the time it took to get the AAs from my borders to my bases, I had finished researching Algorisms. Started the HSA, used some spare crawlers I had around that I built before, and rushed the rest of it.

After realizing I didnt have Nodes in a lot of bases, I built them up and used the AAs to get to a couple things after Fusion. Silksteel, I think, is my last finished tech.

Not sure how I want to play this game. Behind Sparta lies Gaian territory, and behind them Lal sits on a little island. Yang is on a postage stamp of an island, but is making water bases along the coast of the giant landmass that Zak has used about 5% of.

Oddly enough, Santiago seems willing to send probe units over and attempt to take over my units near our border. Either she's trying to take em over, or the AI is simply trying to get to my bases, and the pathfinding considers my unit space to be a key one.

quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf If one's research rate is already quite good, I'd still prefer to cash in for minerals.

I get techs, around, 10 a turn, which is the best out of all 7 right now. It'll go higher when my "energy park" thing is more done. FIrst time I'm trying it.

quote: Also I think he's describing something considerably before the HSA.

Nope, HSA-era. But the tech-versus-SP thing is a general, non-specific question.

	15-07-2004 01:00									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Have you ever played against Morgan?

I have been around this game a loooong time-- I have played everybody

quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Just when you think you've broken the backbone of resistance and held the most strategic city yet.... Probe team enters city, duels with other probe team. Loses. (Wealth kind of sucks this way, doesn't it ;-) ) Second probe team comes in, finishes off the probe team garrison. Third probe team brings down children's creche. Fourth brings down hologram theatre. Fifth incites riot. Riot starts. (This seems to reduce the conversion cost by a lot) Sixth MIND CONTROLS THE CITY. Thats six probe teams, by the AI, on one city, in one turn. And I lost a significant foothold. Eek!

My question would be why the heck you allowed an enemy to have 6 probe teams in range of your base??

If you have your enemy infiltrated (and IMHO you better if you are attacking them), you knew that there were 6 probe teams somewhere. I would have hunted and hunted them to ensure they were blocked or killed. I often forgo capturing a base for a turn or two if there is a probe risk until I can secure the area

	15-07-2004 01:05									#14
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Rhetorical question.

quote: My question would be why the heck you allowed an enemy to have 6 probe teams in range of your base??

Because they came from the other side of the continent.

1. My troops were recovering from a fight.

2. My air force was recovering as well.

3. The probe teams came from the others side of the continent.

4. The last thing...mag tubes!!!!

I later got sick of it and tried to demolish all mag tubes in sight.

	15-07-2004 01:06									#15
	Got spare money?

It sounds like you are having a fun game. That's all that matters. Here are some proposals to keep it fun.

Proposal: Go back and let someone else build the HSA, then invade and take it Can be a lot of fun when you can't probe them.

Proposal: Save all AA's till the end of the game for future techs, right before transcending. This give the AI some chance, and gives you a nice proud 'And I didn't even use 'em' score bonus.

Proposal: Let the AI keep on the same tech level as you, so they fight each other while you amass a gargantuan empire. Then switch to research and fly past 'em, or subject them and use them as tech slaves.

Proposal: Don't use the crawler-upgrade-cash-in trick. Ever. The AI doesn't, so it's minor-league cheating in my book. For that matter, try a game without crawlers at all. Fun Fun.

Proposal: Do whatever keeps the game challenging and fun, rather than what might be the best strategy.

	15-07-2004 01:47									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf I later got sick of it and tried to demolish all mag tubes in sight.

THats actually a precursor to invasions for me in most instances. . . I will cut roads, or mag tubes etc so that AI units are funnelled into certain areas and attacks from rovers or probes are not possible. All I need is one road for my attackers to use and then remaining units just drop in to any conquered cities

Perhaps I am overly cautious but I usually play humans and know that if you leave a weakness, an opponent will likely exploit it

	15-07-2004 01:51									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, it was basically because I just arrived by ship with some Amphibious troops, took a strategic city only to lose it next turn. There was no way I could have been prepared for that, except for the HSA!

	15-07-2004 02:05									#18
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sorry DP

	15-07-2004 02:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Yes, it was basically because I just arrived by ship with some Amphibious troops, took a strategic city only to lose it next turn. There was no way I could have been prepared for that, except for the HSA!

Yes you can

1. Build a seabase within 3-5 tiles of your target city and then use it as a base for aerial operations OR

2. Use choppers on suicide runs to kill stuff and then use their last movement point to cut roads/tubes OR

3. Mass terraform a land link-- your opponents magtubes can be used against him-- hold off the attack unitl prepared and then take 20 bases in one massive turn OR

4.take the strategic city, sell its most expensive improvement and then raze the base LOL OR

5. Use ships to bombard roads and tubes ( relatively inneffective unless done for a few turns


It is almost never great strategy to take a single base when that base is vulnerable and cannot be held. my advice is prepare a little more for the invasion. It can be the difference between having a 4-6 unit force repulsed and having a 20 unit force with a solid beachead

	15-07-2004 04:31									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Flubber THats actually a precursor to invasions for me in most instances. . . I will cut roads, or mag tubes etc so that AI units are funnelled into certain areas and attacks from rovers or probes are not possible. All I need is one road for my attackers to use and then remaining units just drop in to any conquered cities Perhaps I am overly cautious but I usually play humans and know that if you leave a weakness, an opponent will likely exploit it

That technique sounds somewhat familiar.



I agree that, if you are not handicapping yourself, that you should rush your SPs with crawlers.

In SP if I have a boatload of AA's I will seek to obtain every other tech already researchd by any other faction (usually by theft but sometimes by purchase or trade), then cash the AA's in one after another.

This allows you to bypass some weapon choices; go straight from Chaos era choppers to Shard choppers.


Mead

	15-07-2004 05:12									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

SPs, dont **** up your beeline, the mod three rule and the carrying costs are bad.

	15-07-2004 10:40									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Whoha SPs, dont **** up your beeline, the mod three rule and the carrying costs are bad.

I agree but only for the early game-- Once restrictions are lifted, I often prefer to cash them for tech ( once I have traded or stolen for everything anyone else has)-- A quick probe rape of the AI followed by cashing 4 -6 AAs can allow you to easily snatch some key projects and get a jump on key military techs

	15-07-2004 11:33									#23
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If you need to cash in AA's for tech against the AI, you aren't doing something right. It is fun though, isn't it?

	15-07-2004 15:48									#24
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I think I've never used an AA for SP construction… it just seems a waste when crawlers do the job.

	15-07-2004 19:24									#25
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quote: Originally posted by smacksim If you need to cash in AA's for tech against the AI, you aren't doing something right.

If you NEED to

cash in AA's for tech
use crawlers
use directed research
build more than one base
use probefoils
build ANY specific secret project



against the AI, you aren't doing something right.

	16-07-2004 06:34									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by smacksim If you need to cash in AA's for tech against the AI, you aren't doing something right. It is fun though, isn't it?

The same could be said for cashing in your AA's for a SP.

You should have sufficient mineral production and crawlers to allow you to get any SP relatively easily.

It is likely that you be in the lead (or at least parity) with the AI in tech. There should not be any techs that it has that you don't before you cash in the AA's.

That's why you like to probe all the AI's tech's from it before you cash in your AA's. There's no sense wasting a good AA for tech when you just as easily steal that tech from the AA.

The whole purpose is to get parirty, or better, with the AI and then cash in a boatload of AA's to get a phenomenal tech lead that leads to a rapid death of the AI (and conclusion of game).

Mead