15-07-2004 09:37									#1
	AU 601 - ZargonX's DAR (Greece) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I'm sure you've all seen the start in other Greek threads (though I don't know, since I haven't looked ), so I'll just give you the update for this turn, 3500BC. Not too much of interest so far; army consists of 3 warriors, 2 of which are exploring. One hut has thus far yielded barbs, which I left sitting off in the swamps. Working on Iron Working, with all these mountains around it may prove useful...

Attachment: au_3500.gif
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	31-07-2004 03:16									#2
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Er, sorry, I've been falling behind on this. Quick update, with some screens to come later.

We just passed 2600BC, and I've encountered the Babs, Persians, and Egyptians. 2 cities up and running, with a 3rd on the way. The second city was founded 2-3-3 of Athens. The new settler is rushing far north, to claim my closest Iron supply. Speaking of Iron, researching that first earned me a great leader! I'm hanging onto him at the moment, but he will most likely be turned into the Pyramids in short order. Currently researching Math, and have tech parity with Egypt and Babs, and the Persians are 3 behind the rest of us...

	10-08-2004 07:47									#3
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Ok, 1300 BC and another screenshot! I have, at this point, encountered every other civ. I appear to be the tech leader, and am at least 3 techs ahead of PB. Had a brief war with the Persians, which consisted of them declaring war on me, then sending a single warrior to sit outside my borders. Finally just gave them Myst to make them go away. Just sold Poly to the Celts for 350g and 5gpt! They were sitting on a load of cash! That also encourages me, because they seem to be closest to PB, which means he hadn't gotten much out of them Currency in 4, and plenty of gold to keep the research pumping along. My next step will probably be to move up and crush the Babs, taking that sweet land of theirs for my second core.

Attachment: au_1300_empire.gif
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	10-08-2004 07:48									#4
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Oh, yeah, that red X is the city I'll founding in 2 turns. I'd appreciate any feedback anyone may have about how they think things are going, city placement, etc!

	10-08-2004 07:56									#5
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I think you have a good placement. Fairly close and many on a river, what more can you ask for. Well ok maybe a lot less jungle and rocks.

	10-08-2004 08:38									#6
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You guys are playing by rules that allow attacking AI cities, or are you just thinking in terms of keeping them from settling?

	10-08-2004 08:41									#7
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quote: You guys are playing by rules that allow attacking AI cities, or are you just thinking in terms of keeping them from settling?

We are playing by AI attacks allowed. Though, to start with, I will be denying them territory. I think I forgot to mention that my SL went towards the Pyramids, so I've got a good bit of REXing still to do

	18-08-2004 21:26									#8
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around 410BC now... things are going interestingly...

The %&*%^& Persians have been at war with me non-stop for the last thousand years or so. Were they set to be hyper-aggressive in this? They sent a stack of archers at me, took out an outlying city, made peace, then moved the archers further in, attacked and lost, sued for peace, then declared war again on the next turn. They did, of course, set off my GA, which sucks. I've had the edge over them for the last 10 turns or so, moving Hoplites forward and pushing them back, with Med Infs (Feud was my free tech!). That would be well and good, except that now Punkbass has allied with every other AI except for Carthage in military alliances against me. He bribed them all with Constr., I think. I still have the tech edge, but if stacks of units from all the other nations start showing up on my borders, I'm going to be seriously growth-stunted. Need to see if I can turn the tables on him once they start talking to me again...

	24-08-2004 08:47									#9
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Up to 230 BC. Negotiated a peace with the Persians after taking one of the two cities they had on my part of the landmass, and have a settler on the way to block off that chokepoint but good. Meanwhile, in the north, the Babs and the Egyptians, both with alliances to Rome, sent their UUs down after me. They couldn't face my hoplites, and as I am the only person in the world with Feudalism and Engineering, couldn't really push into my territory at all. It was a half-hearted invasion, which is fine by me. Negotiated peace with everyone (but Rome), and my best buddies the Carthaginians even did some negotiating for me

Attachment: 230_diplo.gif
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	24-08-2004 08:51									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Persia had engineering as their free tech, but didn't bother to trade it to anyone. I sold it to the Celts and the Carths for some cash, gpt, and Monarch, Philo, and Republic. I really need to change govts. soon. My GA just ended, but I'm still on track for Invention in ~10, with a slight surplus of cash. I'm still two techs ahead of Rome, and at least 1 tech ahead of everyone else. My plan is to continue REXing until I've filled up all of my little corner. And, of course, continued military buildup

Attachment: 230_lands.gif
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	26-08-2004 07:21									#11
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Ugh... another diplomatic turn around. Three turns later, it was back to everyone allied with Rome against me (except for Carthage, who remains my only friend). PB has the definate advantage in terms of using the AI against me, as the moment I make peace with them, he can re-ally with them next turn and cause me another 5 turns of headaches. That, and my front line Hoplites are apparently useless against Persian archers

	29-08-2004 20:14									#12
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Arggh... this is getting ridiculous. I cannot make peace with any of the AI except Carthage, whom I've been in a MA with. Any turn I make peace, PB can re-ally with them that same turn and it's back to war again. My hoplites keep losing to archers, and my tech lead is failing as I have fight a 3-front war. I have a bad feeling this game is decided, and it's not in my favor, and I don't think it's in PB's either. He's still behind in tech, and it looks like Carth has taken a few of his cities. His own problems, combined with me being constantly under seige are probably going to hand this game to the AI

	10-09-2004 09:00									#13
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Well, things are just getting worse. I still have the tech lead over PB, but he managed to completely smash the Carths, who were my only ally, gaining all their land in the process. My lead shrinks every turn, and I'm still fending off the Babs, Egyptians, and Persians. Fortunately, I received 2 GL's in the span of about 5 turns, giving me 2 3-knight armies. I took 4 Persian cities with those in 2 turns, but then PB somehow destroyed one of them without me even being able to see what killed it. Still don't know how that happened. Anyway, at this point I think it's just a matter of time, as with the constant assaults against me, with no AI even willing to speak with me, I don't think I can shift momentum back in my favor.

Of course, this all brings up an intersting point. PB bribed 5 AI into war against me near the beggining of the game, and I have had absolutely no capacity to be able to bring them to my side, or stay neutral. Giving them tech doesn't work, or resources, or anything. How does one get out of that situation? Once the other player has taken the diplo advantage, are you essentially screwed?

	10-09-2004 19:15									#14
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The AI will make peace easily (for the right price) after they have taken some losses. It also depends on your relative power, of course. But you should have been able to get the Persians to sign peace, after taking so many of their cities. Have you asked them what they want for peace?

It looks like PB has some Armies of his own, by the way. I bet that's how you lost yours.

	10-09-2004 19:51									#15
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quote: But you should have been able to get the Persians to sign peace, after taking so many of their cities.

Let me clarify: I've gotten the AI to make peace on sevearl occassions, but PB always re-allies with them the next turn and we're back at war. That's the part that's hard to deal with. Once that happens, it's another 5 turns until I can even try again. Just took the Persian captial this turn, and I think I've effectively crippled them. Unfortunately, that puts me right up against PB's lands, and I'm sure his forces will be showing up soon enough. Plus still dealing with wave after wave of Bab and Egyptian knights and Med. Inf.

Things would be different if I could get the Celts on my side, but they are unwilling to ally against Rome for anything

	11-09-2004 00:41									#16
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Getting them to peace won't help. You have to make them go to war with Rome to gain some time. With their broken reputation they will not hasitate before breaking treaties. All you can get now is the few turns when they don't talk to their new enemy.

	11-09-2004 01:52									#17
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quote: You have to make them go to war with Rome to gain some time.

And therein lay the problem. I've had absolutely no capacity to get them to turn on Rome. I've offered everything to them, and they just won't do it.

	11-09-2004 02:07									#18
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If not Rome, perhaps you can make the AIs fight each other. Who knows, it might be cheaper (read: affordable). Even if they go back to war with you, some troops would probably be redirected, making your defence easier.

	23-09-2004 00:57									#19
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Well, it's been a while since the last update, but I'll try and sum things up: things were looking grim for a good long while there, but I had one thing on my side: I got Mil. Trad. first. With the amazing power of technology, I made peace with the Babs and Egypt, and convinced the Celts to attack the Romans. The Celts had the strongest army in the world, so having them on my side would be a big a help. I also got the Babs to sign on against Rome, but I don't expect them to contribute much. Egypt re-allied with Rome next turn, which was not unexpected, but unfortunately they have Cavalry also. Rome caught up tech-wise 3 turns later, and I'm pretty sure he did a mass upgrade, because he had his saltpeter detached for a few turns.

A few turns after that, the value of the Celts was truly seen: in the span of 4 turns, they took 5 Roman cities (that I can see) including Rome!. I don't know how long he will hold them for, but any time he spends bashing Roman units and cities is fine by me. I still have to deal with the annoying Egyptians in the north, but at least now I have some options in dealing with Rome. We shall see how it goes...

	23-09-2004 02:50									#20
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Are you in the Industrial age yet? If not, you can still pray to the RNG gods. Maybe they'll make your Scientific trait shine and give you a second lever to move the AI around...

	23-09-2004 09:26									#21
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Ok, the game has official ended with PB's forfiture. His cities were all in disorder, his armies in dissary, and the Celts coming from the North and me starting my sweep in the south all proved pretty decisive. First, let me post a pic of the Eastern front. The red circle is my 3-knight army, and I've got some cavs in the area as well, with more coming from the homeland.

Attachment: au_eastern_front.gif
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	23-09-2004 09:28									#22
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Here is a shot of the minimap, as well. I am behind PB by about 15 points in score, but that would quickly change were we to continue playing. The Celts are still the big baddies in the world, but I have no plans to continue on with the game. Now, I will go merrily read the other DARs to see how my Greek bretheren fared

Attachment: au_minimap.gif
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	23-09-2004 09:43									#23
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Oh, wow... I see my Greek bretheren didn't fare so well

Overall, I'd say several things ultimately paid off for me:
-The early SGL and the Pyramids. This allowed me to grow very fast very early, and that's the long-term investment that probably saved my bacon.
-Buildering it up a bit early on. While this cost my some early military losses when I wasn't prepared, it allowed me to keep the all-important tech and production edge which let me...
-Get Chivalry and Mil. Trad. first. The Chivalry edge let me whup up on the Persians, my ancient arch-nemesis, as well as hold of the Babs and Egyptians. Plus, two of those knights led to two MGLs which led to two 3-knight armies (one of which PB nailed ). Mil. Trad., even with the weaker AU-mod cavs, gave me a speed advantage, and allowed me to...
-Get the Celts against Rome. The Celts were the big boys, and they'd just been sitting around getting stronger. 4 turns after allying with them, they took 6 of PB's cities, including his capital. He had to divert all of his forces, which allowed me to start coming in from the south (albeit slowly) 8 or 9 turns after that, and the game was finished.

So, that's my thoughts on the subjects. It was a great game, and I enjoyed playing with PB. Any comments are much appreciated!

	23-09-2004 22:32									#24
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Actually, Dom forfeited to me. While it was no where as convincing as your victory (which looks pretty well fought, and a lot more convincing than my game, I must admit), it was still a moral victory.


Can I have the save game to look at the surrounding land? I never got a good look at it myself, since the game was dropped.