17-07-2004 22:01									#31
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playing ffas/public ctf matches are what made me rapidly become a good player. it also didn't hurt that i was a modemer most of the time as that makes you develop a very different style if you are going to compete with lpbs. i usually get much more satisfaction out of high kill to death ratio play than just gets tons of frags. most players today are happy to get 100 frags even if they died 100 times. i'd be much happier at 80 with fraction of their deaths.

	17-07-2004 22:41									#32
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quote: I like the UT2k4 instagib. It's got a good feeling to it, unlike the UT2k3 insta, that sucked.

thats funny cause I use the 2k3 shock rifle model. The new model messes up my play for some reason. aint that weird?

pg, i think everyone prefers high ratio over high kills. You can be in the same server for really really long time killing things and stack up high points. thats easy.

Kills dont mean anything in team play. Tracking a player and trying to kill someone in team game for most of the time is waste of team's time and resource. But yeah, in DM, I would also consider high ratio over high kills for the most part. But if it is something like 4/1 VS 100/70 for same allotte time, you know that the 4/1 player is just camping and hiding and playing really really safe, while 100/70 player is actually jumping into the hot zones. So it depends, but yeah for the most part high ratio is better.

Also ratio is misleading sometimes when numbers are low. I can easily go 20/1 agst my friend, but i cant pull a 200/10. So theres that too. Basically if you have too low of a kill you arent good, but if you have too low of a ratio you arent good either. you should take both into an account.

	17-07-2004 22:57									#33
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If it's free for all the object is to get the most kills. If you choose to wuss out of the hot areas in order to die less then you deserve your low ranking.

In TDM and other modes it's different, but FFA is simple - frag more people, any way you can.

	18-07-2004 04:04									#34
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Nah I can't practice, I don't have a valid cdkey, and besides I'll never leave my favourite fps anyway . I kick too much ass in it

No like I said 1v1 is a lot easier. I can even frag those top players, and they're regarded as the better players here in belgium.
Last weekend I lost 9-2 and 14-6 in ironic and rankin vs botchla, got whacked a bit harder by sender (17-3 or something). Most of my deaths were spawnkills anyway, sometimes 3 times in a row, which is pretty amazing if you ask me.

But in crowded servers I just get killed before I get hold of a weapon, most of the time and that spoils the fun for me really.
Instagib.. is just easy .

	18-07-2004 05:09									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Zero pg, i think everyone prefers high ratio over high kills. You can be in the same server for really really long time killing things and stack up high points. thats easy.

all i have to go by is demos(i don't play actively any more because of my modem) but i still think there is a substantial number of people who don't care about efficiency. even in the so called "pro" leagues i see lots of players rather go for one extra kill rather than pull back and stay alive.

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike If it's free for all the object is to get the most kills. If you choose to wuss out of the hot areas in order to die less then you deserve your low ranking. In TDM and other modes it's different, but FFA is simple - frag more people, any way you can.

when i used to play ffa i dominated the hot areas because they were the key to controlling the level. ffa isn't about frags it's about control just like tdm of duel. once you get control the frags will come automatically. now maybe on some crappy maps or a super crowded servers all you can do is cess for frags but real ffa isn't screwed up like that.

not to brag but when the ut2k3 demo first came out i played a bit on my 28.8k and still managed do very well. not much of an accomplishment because it was against totally random players but ut2k3 ffa is very similar to quake(so i imagine ut2k4 is too). you control the armor/powerups/weapons and choose where to fight and you will get frags. if you are a dominating enough force on the server your efficiency changes the dynamic of the game so cessing won't work. it's so much more efficient to pull in kills when you are armored, weaponed, ammo'd up and in the control that someone constantly dying(even if all they are worried about is kills) will never come close to beating you. you'll end up with super high efficiency and super high frags.

it's a shame ffa is ignored by skilled players today because it has different attributes which offer unique gameplay. ffa is as deep and challenging as any other mode. just because it's rife with newbies doesn't mean there is nothing to learn by mastering it(lots of tournies still use it for rankings at the start of a tournament).

	18-07-2004 05:21									#36
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Yes I agree it's a shame. Back when I played Quake seriously most of my clan wouldn't play FFA, because they thought it screwed up TDM skills. I never found switching difficult though, and besides the fact FFA is great fun it was always extra fun to have competitions to see who could get called a cheat first.

	18-07-2004 05:31									#37
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In FFA, something I learned waaay ago, the best thing is not only to control a weapon/powerup, but to wait till two start fighting and then blast em both .

	18-07-2004 09:43									#38
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Wow, this thread must have just slipped between the cracks because I never noticed it.

I don't really play 'seriously' (a.k.a. ladder or constant deathmatch) so take this in perspective:

quote: ...if you are a dominating enough force on the server your efficiency changes the dynamic of the game so cessing won't work. it's so much more efficient to pull in kills when you are ... in the control that someone constantly dying(even if all they are worried about is kills) will never come close to beating you. you'll end up with super high efficiency and super high frags. it's a shame ffa is ignored by skilled players today because it has different attributes which offer unique gameplay. ffa is as deep and challenging as any other mode. just because it's rife with newbies doesn't mean there is nothing to learn by mastering it(lots of tournies still use it for rankings at the start of a tournament).

Yeah, that's quite true. I remember popping into UT MP games, any type, and never recovering. CTF comes to mind, once you start playing something like Hall of Giants for a while (a thing that can never be replicated) you get into a groove and just seem to know the exact action/reaction of weapons etc. There seems to be a lack of this power in 2004, especially in the flak cannon. That and no proper exploding ammo. Man, that was one ramble.

Right now the game has become a relaxation device for me, as perverted as that may sound. I'll pick a huge map, set victory conditions to something like 100 / 60 min, and just space out. The 2004 Hall of Giants is an ok substitue until I can figue out why UT crashes. Or until Chaos 04 comes out.

	18-07-2004 13:18									#39
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quote: Originally posted by pg even in the so called "pro" leagues i see lots of players rather go for one extra kill rather than pull back and stay alive.

What kind of noob league are you talking about. Everyone knows team objective supercedes EVERYTHING.

quote: but i still think there is a substantial number of people who don't care about efficiency.

Whether you should worry about "efficiency" or what i think u implying as high kill:death ratio... once again depends on team objective. Does your death hurt the team objective? if ur in the enemy base, defintely yes. If you're near spawn point, suicide killing an invader, no... actually you're contributing to the team's objective by pushing enemy away and wasting little time changing position..... or binding a suicide for onslaught mode to spawn near an area of relevance..... all that is more important than kill:death ratio.

quote: not to brag but when the ut2k3 demo first came out i played a bit on my 28.8k and still managed do very well. not much of an accomplishment because it was against totally random players but ut2k3 ffa is very similar to quake(so i imagine ut2k4 is too). you control the armor/powerups/weapons and choose where to fight and you will get frags. if you are a dominating enough force on the server your efficiency changes the dynamic of the game so cessing won't work. it's so much more efficient to pull in kills when you are armored, weaponed, ammo'd up and in the control that someone constantly dying(even if all they are worried about is kills) will never come close to beating you. you'll end up with super high efficiency and super high frags.

I totally agree that best way to dominate is to map a 60-120 sec route to monopolize the powerups when they spawn. but I was merely pointing out that you can get the same ratio by camping and playing real safe with low kills, which could reflect same ratio, yet not reflect the same dominance and skill as skilled player. therefore looking at ratio to assess the player is flawed.