16-07-2004 11:42									#1
	ICS kind of...It works!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

After reading the ICS thread, and not having much luck with a good game on Transcend, I decided to give it a shot. It’s not a real tight formation as in some of the pix. I have 24 bases, 4 rows down and 6 rows across. Plenty of boreholes, condensers, crawlers and hybrid forests.
My base spacing is 4 tiles from base to base, and I'm playing Zak.

Lal is just slightly in the lead going by the bar graph, but I’m ahead in tech and wealth. I’m in a pact with Dee, which she suggested, without asking to go to war against anyone. This was a first. Morgan also did the same, but broke the pact a few years back as I’m running Green.

Some details: Year is 2250
SE: is Dem, Green, Wealth
Secret Projects: HG, EG, VW, SC, AV, CF (in the works)
Map size is huge
Labs are at 80%, and breakthroughs are at 3 years. Income is only 39, but I don’t need the money right now and have 1136 credits.
Lal is on a bit of a rampage, so I want to keep the tech up to keep him off my back.

Believers are gone, thanks to Lal. Spartans are the only faction at war with me, but she’s too busy fighting off Lal to even show up. The Hive are going down fast. Dee is looking after that.

I have Superlube Choppers, Aircraft and rovers in all bases if anyone should try something.

Lal has Chaos, but no air power or fusion. No one else is even close to a threat.

It looks like I’m on my way to my first Transcend Level victory. I have to give the credit to my version of ICS, which I never would have used before. (thanks) It’s not real pretty, even with my much greater spacing, but it’s very effective.

I’ll let you know how the game works out. I know it’s nothing compared to some of you guys out there, but it’s a step forward for me.

Note: I did have to give up some tech and some credits to Lal and the Spartans, to keep them at bay early in the game. And I did change to Demo when Lal first showed up on my turf. ( he’s right next to me by the way, as is Morgan.) When I went Demo he not only left without me asking, he left me a unit for defense and few turns later.
So, I have had to give in to some degree, and it’s not a calkwalk yet, but I soon think it will be.

Comments please.

Last edited by fender on 16-07-2004 at 11:53

	16-07-2004 11:53									#2
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Well, keep in mind that ICS doesn't always look like Skanky's picture. It just means infinite cities...infinite expansion, whether you are a pure 1-space'r like Skanky, or a 2-space'r (base-space-space-base), or even larger. The point is to keep expanding. Congrats on your first Transcend victory!

	16-07-2004 16:32									#3
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Do you have a screenshot of your base placement?

	16-07-2004 19:06									#4
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I can do pretty well against the comp even without ICS, on transcend. I'll post a screenshot as someone tells me how. Damn sunspots just ended, so now I can talk to everyone.

I'm the governor!

	16-07-2004 19:41									#5
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People can win on Transend with only one city. Obviously ICS isn't needed to win.

	16-07-2004 19:43									#6
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I was going to post a screenshot of mine for you all to look at, for some reason my screen shots come out like this.

In any case, that's as close as I like to put my bases. And I didn't use hardly any supply crawlers in between those bases. I tried, but I just don't like it. Why use crawlers to get one resource when you can use workers to get 3?

I can't see putting them as close as Skanky's pictures. I play with abundant life forms. That means you would have to clear away the fungus before you can build a city . I don't like that. Some of my cities are farther apart because I had to go around fungus and clear it later.

Attachment: smacscreenie.jpg
This has been downloaded 257 time(s).

	16-07-2004 20:18									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident And I didn't use hardly any supply crawlers in between those bases. I tried, but I just don't like it. Why use crawlers to get one resource when you can use workers to get 3?

Because you can't build population units and their drone control and sufficient housing for 3 mineral rows each. Having 3 workers and 5 crawlers harvesting early on is a lot nicer than having 4 workers. Also, even though you can only crawl one resource, you can crawl whatever is most important at the time - minerals early, nutrients later, and maybe energy at an energy park.

	16-07-2004 20:41									#8
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Diss, keep SMAC open when you alt-tab to the graphics editing program you paste the picture in. Then when you paste, the picture will actually turn out.

	16-07-2004 23:02									#9
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Also changing alt-tabing to properties and changing them back to your normal settings helps.

	17-07-2004 00:07									#10
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Here is the layout that I'm using. Not a true ICS, but it's working. I know people can win with one base, by the way. I'm just not one of them.

Anyway, it's just four rows by 6 rows. Morgan is at the top, and Lal is to the right and bottom. I have room to expand to the left for a bit.

	17-07-2004 20:58									#11
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Well, for those interested the game is over.

Lal demanded tech in 2265 and I refused. Vendetta was the result. He was never able to even get on my soil with this set up. It’s so easy to defend. Interceptors, Pentraters, and Shard Choppers were waiting for him. I had some Fusion drop shard rovers, but soon had Singularity Shard drop hover tanks and first went after the base that had the Hunter Seeker. I hate probe teams.

Anyway, except for that base and one or two others, I gave the rest to Dee, Morgan and one to Sparta. Lal had enough in 2299 and surrendered. I could have dragged the game out, but I went for the “Get behind me for Leader” diplomatic victory.
I’m anxious to try the same thing again and see what happens.

	17-07-2004 21:46									#12
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Heres my first real attempt at ICS,first actual one was the first time I played civ, played quite a bit of an old empire game in which cities=good so I tried to place a city next to a city, and when that didn't work went 1 city over. Absolutely crushed the AI that game(was chieftain though), but i also switched to demo from monarchy with a bunch of cities with no improvements at all and 10 units in the field, it wasn't pretty.

Attachment: icsmorg.jpg
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	17-07-2004 22:08									#13
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Aw, another yellow igniter...

* GeoModder shields his eyes from the glare.

	17-07-2004 23:49									#14
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my eyes! my eyes!

	18-07-2004 00:43									#15
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Egad, that is yellow. I can't see other colors now. Retina burnt out.

Now we just need an example of 2-space ICS: base-space-space-base.

	18-07-2004 00:49									#16
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Way to go, though the pattern seems too rigid. Did you need to delay base placement to keep the closest packing?

	18-07-2004 01:11									#17
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Much looser base-space-space-base ICS using the peacenik faction from Aldebran. This isn't ICS Hive style though as I'm building facilities a plenty. I'd say it's still ICS though as expansion is still sleazing along. Note that I also haven't got crawlers yet, or advanced terraforming techniques. it's 2181... Argh! There's only one AI close to me in power though, who's resides in the jungle.

	18-07-2004 01:21									#18
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Well, that's why I called mine ICS "kind of", 'cause it's nothing compared to that Morgan pix. Now that is ICS!

Congrats

	18-07-2004 01:50									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Way to go, though the pattern seems too rigid. Did you need to delay base placement to keep the closest packing?

only if I got lazy, most of the time I skip to the next spot on the grid and plop the city there if there was fungus/rocky in the way.

Also I need a way to get rid of those monliths, 2 of them are blocking boreholes, 1 is blocking a city site, and 2 are blocking nut/condensor farms.

	18-07-2004 03:35									#20
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Monoliths have a chance to vanish when you upgrade units at them. Just keep funnelling military units through.

	22-07-2004 01:34									#21
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ICS=Insane City Spacing

I'd have to say, while maybe not the most realistic, it looks pretty cool and on the verge of perfectness. But of course, it would never work on Civ. IMO, a certain specialist should be made that operates the the crawler, so basically, you would lose a potential worker or other specialist for every crawler. I find it would balance the game more, and it would prevent ICSing, so that all players would have to play like the stupid AI and wouldn't have as good of a human advantage over the AI...

But just my opinion...

	22-07-2004 02:56									#22
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That would be no problem, see all those size 20 cities I have there, each 1 has 3 nut crawlers, and 1 guy working a bore hole, so 16 specialists and 4 workers.

	22-07-2004 21:50									#23
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But you would have 3 less specialists beside crawlers, and for smaller bases, and for the beginning of the game, the effect of ICSing would be hindered, not by much, but still by some. Three less workers is roughly 15% less energy, assuming that all bases are pop twenty. And since most of them aren't, instead getting all the techs in the year 2250, you''ll be looking at a Transcend victory in at least 2300...

	22-07-2004 22:19									#24
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At the beginning of the game it would just be 1 less.

	23-07-2004 06:54									#25
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But one less in a pop 3,4, or even 5 base is a much worse percentage than 3 out of twenty...

	23-07-2004 19:32									#26
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While at the topic of ICS, what improvements do you usually build in all of these bases?

	23-07-2004 21:15									#27
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It depends. there are stages:

Pre-orbital spaceflight: Rec tanks,preserves(if you got a pop),perimeter.

After orbital space flight:
Network nodes,Research hospitals,GeneJack Factories, pretty much anything that increases labs,econ,production. Don't need drone control at all since every city is pretty much a specialist city.

When soil enrichers are in place: hab complexes.

When i'm in the state i'm in in that picture: Everything that needs to be built.

quote: Originally posted by Commy But one less in a pop 3,4, or even 5 base is a much worse percentage than 3 out of twenty...

Size 6 bases get crawlers generally. No point in building 1 for a size 3 or 4.
1/6 or 3/20, its about the same. But I wouldnt use crawlers for the size 6 since the square is in the base radius and I could just work it. That would kill early use of crawlers.

	18-08-2004 15:24									#28
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There are some things about ICS I don't understand. (I'm a newbie to SMACX.)

How do you get your minerals? In those base-square-base ICS, every base has a borehole (6 nuts, 6 mins) and two farm-condenser-crawler-squares (only nuts). So you have only 6 mins per turn? Seems quite low to me.

quote: Pre-orbital spaceflight: Rec tanks,preserves(if you got a pop),perimeter. After orbital space flight: Network nodes,Research hospitals,GeneJack Factories, pretty much anything that increases labs,econ,production. Don't need drone control at all since every city is pretty much a specialist city.

And children's creches, too, no? So everything you build before pre-orbital spaceflight is rec tanks, preserves, perimeter, creches, former, 2 crawlers, and whrn you're done with that, you just keep on building colony pods?

	18-08-2004 18:12									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha It depends. there are stages: Pre-orbital spaceflight: Rec tanks,preserves(if you got a pop),perimeter.

Why perimeters-- I almost never build these except in a vulnerable base. The bases deep in an ICS heartland seem like poor candidates to need a perimeter defense. If the enemy gets there, you are already shafted

	18-08-2004 18:34									#30
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Because I was still working on ICS then. Now i'm trying out building all the lab and econ enhancers.